All time team line up? Trout??🙀

Peter_Spaeth · #1 04-24-2018, 07:55 AM

Bench, not Piazza.
Schmidt and Brett over Chipper Jones.

nat · #2 04-24-2018, 09:50 AM

Co-sign on Peter's suggestions.

Trout is the greatest young player ever, but he still needs to be a great middle-aged and old player before he replaces Cobb. He could manage it, but if he manages it, it will be quite a while before he pulls it off.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 04-24-2018, 12:34 PM

Look at Pujols. His career numbers are still very impressive, but at age 30 he was on track to be one of the few best players ever, and his last 5 or 6 years have been dramatically less productive. You just don't know.

EvilKing00 · #4 04-24-2018, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bench, not Piazza.
Schmidt and Brett over Chipper Jones.

I know it sounds crazy but take a good look at chippers numbers, they are sick. Compare to the other 2. And im a damn met fan

Peter_Spaeth · #5 04-24-2018, 09:06 PM

Not that sick. Baseball reference ranks Jones 6th. Much of that must be adjustments for era because his raw numbers would suggest a higher ranking.

the 'stache · #6 04-26-2018, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

I know it sounds crazy but take a good look at chippers numbers, they are sick. Compare to the other 2. And im a damn met fan

If we're going on the numbers, Schmidt beats Chipper Jones...easily. That's not to say Chipper Jones wasn't a great player. But he was never as dominant as Michael Jack Schmidt.

In 19 seasons, Chipper led the league in batting once. OBP once. OPS once. And, OPS + once.

In 18 seasons, Mike Schmidt led the league in runs scored once, home runs eight times, RBIs four times, walks four times, OBP three times, SLG five times, OPS five times, and OPS + six times.

Relative to their peers, Schmidt was better. Chipper had a 141 career OPS +. He was 41% above league average for his career. Schmidt's career OPS + was 147. And Chipper is in the Hall of Fame based on his offense. He has a -0.9 career dWAR per BR. Schmidt was 6% better than Chipper, relative to their individual peers. And defensively? Schmidt blows him out of the water. Schmidt has an 18.4 career dWAR.

Fangraphs? Though Chipper Jones had 552 more career PAs (roughly one season's worth), Schmidt had a much higher career WAR. Jones had 84.8. Schmidt had 106.5.

Awards? Chipper won one MVP and two Silver Sluggers.
Mike Schmidt won three MVPs, six Silver Sluggers (and the award wasn't first handed out until 1980, essentially Schmidt's eighth season in the Majors. He would have won at least two more, if not three or four. Oh, and Schmidt won ten Gold Gloves. Among corner infielders, only Brooks Robinson (16 at third base) and Keith Hernandez (11 at first base) have ever won more. Neither of them were even close to being the offensive force Schmidt was.

Chipper is a worthy Hall of Famer. But Mike Schmidt is the gold standard at third base.

In addition to Brett, I would put Eddie Mathews ahead of Jones, too. Eddie Mathews had 96.6 WAR per FA, 96.1 WAR per Fangraphs. His prime-1953 to 1961-saw him put up a 158 OPS + (over the same span, Hank Aaron, from 1954 to 1961, put up a 153 OPS +; take out Aaron's rookie year of 1964, he had a 159 OPS + from 1955 to 1961-one point higher than Mathews).

Mathews 162 game average from 1953 to 1961:

.288 AVG, 116 runs, 172 hits, 25 doubles, 7 triples, 42 home runs, 114 RBI, 106 BB, slash line of .393 OBP/.558 SLG/.951 OPS, 158 OPS +.

That's over the span of just under 6,000 plate appearances.

Chipper Jones, per BA, had three seasons with a 7 + WAR (7 WAR is considered MVP level): 7.6 in 2007, 7.3 in 2008, and 7.1 in 1998.

Eddie Mathews had eight seasons with a 7 + WAR: 8.3 in 1953, 8.2 in 1959, 8.0 in 1963, 8.0 in 1954, 7.4 in 1957, 7.4 in 1960, 7.3 in 1955, and 7.2 in 1961.

Jones had eight seasons of 5 + WAR (All Star level). Mathews had twelve.

People tend to overlook Mathews. Between 1953 and 1961, in the American League, between ages 21 and 29, Mickey Mantle had 76.9 WAR for the Yankees. Over that same period, also between ages 21 and 29, Eddie Mathews had 66.0 WAR. Mantle averaged slightly above 1 WAR, per season, better than Mathews. The only other player in the Majors that had more WAR than Mathews over that nine year span was Willie Mays, at 71.8.

Mathews was an elite player. For nearly a decade (nine years), he averaged 7.3 WAR per season, or 7.8 WAR per 162 games. In other words, he played at an MVP level for nine years straight. And he wasn't even the best player on his team.

Why is he overlooked? Bill James, in his 2003 Historical Baseball Abstract, ranked all players by position. That Braves team of the 50s and early 60s had three historic players: Hank Aaron (#2 all-time right fielder behind only Babe Ruth), Warren Spahn (#5 pitcher all-time), and Eddie Mathews (#3 third baseman all-time). Of his 363 total career wins, Spahn won 356 for the Braves. He had thirteen 20-win seasons. And, oh yeah, Hank Aaron broke the Babe's career home run record. So, there's that. What's Mathew's claim to fame? He never won an MVP. He hit 500 home runs, but Aaron hit a lot more. He tends to get lost in the cracks. But he shouldn't. He's better than Chipper Jones.

bnorth · #7 04-26-2018, 09:21 AM

Pujols 1B
Robinson 2B
Jeter SS
Boggs 3B
Ivan Rodriguez(pre weight loss)

C
Williams LF
Cobb C
Aaron RF
Ruth DH
Clemens P

clydepepper · #8 04-28-2018, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bench, not Piazza.
Schmidt and Brett over Chipper Jones.

Exactly!

View Poll Results: Can Trout replace cobb?
Yep hes already has	3	7.32%
No way !	20	48.78%
Sure but needs more seasons of the same	17	41.46%
Whos mike trout?	1	2.44%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
So you have your all time team... Now	EvilKing00	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	35	09-30-2013 09:23 AM
OT: An all time line up just for fun, whos yours?	EvilKing00	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	65	09-20-2013 04:19 AM
All time team	Archive	Basketball / Cricket / Tennis Cards Forum	12	10-19-2008 07:34 AM
All time line up	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	20	06-30-2005 04:08 PM
NON HOF ALL-TIME TEAM	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	21	11-15-2004 04:24 AM