Mantle Reality

[jason.1969]

Los Angeles back then. Definitely a big premium on Mantle cards. And someone here must have that first Beckett/Eckes price guide. I think I got it for my birthday when I was 10 around 1980. It would be a good way to test our memories.

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[rats60]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Los Angeles back then. Definitely a big premium on Mantle cards. And someone here must have that first Beckett/Eckes price guide. I think I got it for my birthday when I was 10 around 1980. It would be a good way to test our memories.

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I have it

1956 Mantle 11 Mays 10
1957 Mantle 12 Mays 11
1958 Mantle 9.5 Mays 9
1959 Mantle 7 Mays 7
1960 Mantle 6 Mays 6
1961 Mantle 6 Mays 6
1962 Mantle 6 Mays 6
1963 Mantle 6 Mays 6

There also could be a regional bias. I am in more of National League area, so Mays was held high regard. I remember people questioning why Mays cards weren't worth more, you still hear that today. As time went by a small gap developed between the two, but it was definitely an overnight explosion in Mantle that created a larger difference that seems to grow larger every year.

WAR by year
Year. Mays Mantle
1954 10.6. 6.9
1955. 9.1. 9.6
1956. 7.6. 11.3
1957. 8.3. 11.3
1958. 10.3. 8.7
1959. 7.8. 6.6
1960. 9.5. 6.3
1961. 8.7. 10.5
1962. 10.5. 5.9
1963. 10.6. 2.9
1964. 11.0. 4.8
1965. 11.2. 1.8
1966. 9.0. 3.6

I think this really explains a lot. If you were following baseball in 1955-58, you would probably feel Mantle was slightly better than Mays. If you were following baseball in 1959 and after, you would think Mays was a lot better Mantle. In our neighborhood there were enough 1959 Topps cards available that both my brother and I were able to put together complete sets, but a lot less 1958s and very few 1957s or earlier. I just grew up in an era when Mantle was after his peak and even the oldest kids in our area never saw Mantle in his prime. There definitely seems to be a mystique associated with him playing for the Yankees. It certainly isn't in his numbers.

[irv]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

I was not around. However, my father who grew up in the Bronx, talked about
him with god-like status throughout my childhood. This is a man who hasn't
missed a Yankee game on TV/radio since Stengel was manager. Needless to say, I
wore number 7 for all my little league teams. 1995 was the first time I saw my dad cry.

My Great Uncle Sam was an avid Yankee and Mantle fan while I was growing up but I really never knew that until it was too late.
My Father, who also has limited stories/knowledge due to the distance between them (Pontiac Michigan and Southern Ontario) has told me some stories that my Great Aunt Eileen has shared with him about my Uncle Sam's obsession.

It's unfortunate the age gap was so huge that I never got the opportunity to talk about Mickey Mantle, the Yankees, or baseball in general with him. What I'd give for that opportunity today!

[skil55voy]

I was born in 1955. I saw Mantle play 4 times at Tiger Stadium 1964-1966.

[58pinson]

Born in '48, northern NJ. Saw him play a fair number of times. That said, grew up a Yankee hater. There was only one centerfielder in NY to me, Willie Mays. Then there was the day the music died, so to speak, and the NL teams headed for the coast. In retrospect I've no problem giving him his due. Maybe I've mellowed as I've aged.

[mickey7mantle7]

Originally Posted by rats60

I have it

1956 Mantle 11 Mays 10
1957 Mantle 12 Mays 11
1958 Mantle 9.5 Mays 9
1959 Mantle 7 Mays 7
1960 Mantle 6 Mays 6
1961 Mantle 6 Mays 6
1962 Mantle 6 Mays 6
1963 Mantle 6 Mays 6

There also could be a regional bias. I am in more of National League area, so Mays was held high regard. I remember people questioning why Mays cards weren't worth more, you still hear that today. As time went by a small gap developed between the two, but it was definitely an overnight explosion in Mantle that created a larger difference that seems to grow larger every year.

WAR by year
Year. Mays Mantle
1954 10.6. 6.9
1955. 9.1. 9.6
1956. 7.6. 11.3
1957. 8.3. 11.3
1958. 10.3. 8.7
1959. 7.8. 6.6
1960. 9.5. 6.3
1961. 8.7. 10.5
1962. 10.5. 5.9
1963. 10.6. 2.9
1964. 11.0. 4.8
1965. 11.2. 1.8
1966. 9.0. 3.6

I think this really explains a lot. If you were following baseball in 1955-58, you would probably feel Mantle was slightly better than Mays. If you were following baseball in 1959 and after, you would think Mays was a lot better Mantle. In our neighborhood there were enough 1959 Topps cards available that both my brother and I were able to put together complete sets, but a lot less 1958s and very few 1957s or earlier. I just grew up in an era when Mantle was after his peak and even the oldest kids in our area never saw Mantle in his prime. There definitely seems to be a mystique associated with him playing for the Yankees. It certainly isn't in his numbers.

Very telling. Agree.

[geosluggo]

I was born in 1964, too young to ever see him play but cannot remember a time in my life that I didn't know the name "Mickey Mantle." When I started collecting as a kid in the 1970s, Mantle cards were definitely sought-after, but seen -- at least among my circle of friends -- as on par with Aaron, Mays, Koufax. (I was and remain a huge Clemente fan but I don't recall Clemente cards taking off in the first few years after his death.)

I became aware of the Mantle mystique in 1985 when one of his several autobiographies came out, "The Mick," and I heard he'd be signing books at a store in Washington, D.C. I figured it'd be cool to stop by and get his autograph, but remember showing up to find a line of middle-aged men extending out the store and around the block. It's these guys and their disposable income that drove the Mantle card and memorabilia market into the stratosphere.

I re-entered the collecting world about 10 years ago and started finishing off pre-1968 sets. As any collector knows, Mantle cards are always the toughest to find at reasonable prices. I know it's not Mick's fault and I have much respect for the law of supply and demand, but I'm just not a fan of the guy because of the prices of his cards.

I now have all the Topps sets back to 1956. I'm thinking about going after 1955 Topps or Bowman set next. I like the Bowmans better, but the idea of finding a Mantle causes me dread. And there's no Mantle in the 1955 Topps set.

[Exhibitman]

Mantle will always outshine Mays for collectors because:

--Mantle played for the premiere team in the sport and spent his entire career in the media capital of the USA; Mays played for the least successful NY team and they left partway through his career for a secondary city.
--Mantle was spectacular, good and bad. Mays was steadier. Mantle was better than Mays at his peak but had a much shorter peak. It's better to burn out than fade away...
--Mantle had a peak era as his team won. Mays did not put together a streak like that until he was already in SF, and they didn't win.
--Context counts. Mays had the bad luck to have his peak streak during the strongest era for pitching, so his raw stats (other than the 1965 totals) didn't look that spectacular even though they were elite in context.
--Mays never had a 1961 Roger Maris teammate. Mantle was fortunate enough to have Maris in 61 and for that year to end up being the last legendary Yankees team.
--WS results head to head: Yankees 2, Giants 0. 1951 and 1962.
--Mantle was handsome and white in an era where few black athletes would be chosen for endorsements not aimed at the black community. His marketability and awareness of Mantle were greater than for Mays.
--Mays was overshadowed towards the end of his career by Aaron's home run chase.



And last but not least, Mantle has a card in the 1952 Topps high series; Mays is in the semis.

[Joe Hunter]

Mantle was my favorite player from the late '50's until he retired. I saw him play a couple of times in KC in the early '60's. I grew up in Cardinal country, so Musial and Boyer were my next favorite players. Got my first Mantle card from a pack in 1959. I have no idea what happened to it. I got my first Mantle in-person signed baseball in Overland Park, KS in the mid-80's. I still have it.