AH Blues

Fballguy · #1 05-22-2018, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is a complete non sequitur. The fact that you don't have reliable price information for pennants has nothing whatsoever to do with the buyer's premium issue. In the end you are bidding what you decide to bid, and it makes no difference how the auction calculates its fee. You aren't "footing the bill." You are bidding what you decide to bid. The consignor is footing the bill because he is only getting a percentage of the sum you pay the AH and the AH is keeping a share. If you pay 120, the consignor gets 100. How on earth are YOU footing that bill? Good luck in your search.

The consignor is getting 100% of the bid...and I'm paying 20% for his right to do so.

Do you want me to send you a dictionary so you can look up the word bid?

Peter_Spaeth · #2 05-22-2018, 04:38 PM

Let's see if one other person here agrees with you, Rob, shall we? Not that that would matter since you're the smartest guy on the board, obviously.

vintagebaseballcardguy · #3 05-22-2018, 04:53 PM

When I choose to bid on a card, pennant, whatever that any given auction house has up for bids, I make the choice to bid. It is up to me to read the rules---including what fees I may or may not have to pay if I win. If I object to a buyer's premium, I don't place any bids. If I choose to participate, I have a certain amount I am willing to spend. I don't care what percentage is going to a consignor, the auction house, or whomever...I am hoping that my amount is enough to win the card, pennant, or whatever.

Fballguy · #4 05-22-2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's see if one other person here agrees with you, Rob, shall we? Not that that would matter since you're the smartest guy on the board, obviously.

Tell you what...If one person here can direct me to an auction house that touts their "20% lower than market value winning bids", I'll never speak of the buyer's premium again.

ValKehl · #5 05-22-2018, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

The consignor is getting 100% of the bid...and I'm paying 20% for his right to do so.

Do you want me to send you a dictionary so you can look up the word bid?

Rob, what you said may be technically correct, however, when I bid in an auction, I consider my bids to include whatever BP, if any, applies; I assume most collectors would agree with me.

Fballguy · #6 05-22-2018, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Rob, what you said may be technically correct, however, when I bid in an auction, I consider my bids to include whatever BP, if any, applies; I assume most collectors would agree with me.

I agree with what you say...I'm sure many do that. But it's because you've been conditioned to do so. That says nothing about why it should be that way.

tiger8mush · #7 05-22-2018, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I agree with what you say...I'm sure many do that. But it's because you've been conditioned to do so. That says nothing about why it should be that way.

A card (or pennant or slab with a pretty flip etc) with a market value of $1000 is up for auction.

Option 1) 0% buyer premium, 10% seller fee. Top bidder bids $1000. Top bidder pays $1k, auction house gets $100 and seller gets $900.

Option 2) 11.11% buyer premium, 0% seller fee. Top bidder bids $900. Top bidder pays $900 + [buyer premium of $900 x 11.11%] = $1k, auction house gets $100 and seller gets $900

Six in one, half dozen the other.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 05-22-2018, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

A card (or pennant or slab with a pretty flip etc) with a market value of $1000 is up for auction.

Option 1) 0% buyer premium, 10% seller fee. Top bidder bids $1000. Top bidder pays $1k, auction house gets $100 and seller gets $900.

Option 2) 11.11% buyer premium, 0% seller fee. Top bidder bids $900. Top bidder pays $900 + [buyer premium of $900 x 11.11%] = $1k, auction house gets $100 and seller gets $900

Six in one, half dozen the other.

It's no use. Example after example is lost on this dude. He is honed in on the word BID, and his response will be that in your second example the BID was less and the buyer, not seller, had to "foot the bill" for the AH, whatever that means. I think we should all stop feeding this idiocy.

RedsFan1941 · #9 05-22-2018, 07:21 PM

"I think we should all stop feeding this idiocy."

BINGO!

Fballguy · #10 05-22-2018, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

A card (or pennant or slab with a pretty flip etc) with a market value of $1000 is up for auction.

Option 1) 0% buyer premium, 10% seller fee. Top bidder bids $1000. Top bidder pays $1k, auction house gets $100 and seller gets $900.

Option 2) 11.11% buyer premium, 0% seller fee. Top bidder bids $900. Top bidder pays $900 + [buyer premium of $900 x 11.11%] = $1k, auction house gets $100 and seller gets $900

Six in one, half dozen the other.

You left out an option.

Option 3) Card still sells for $1,000 and the buyer has to pay an extra $111.10 and the seller gets $1,000.

The notion that every winning bid has been deflated by the value of the BP is ludicrous.

vintagebaseballcardguy · #11 05-22-2018, 08:24 PM

This thread has become ludicrous. This, on the other hand, is Ludacris.
Carry on...

x2drich2000 · #12 05-22-2018, 08:36 PM

Rob, in your example (option 3), the buyer now pays $1,111.10 total, not $1000. All you did was add an extra $100 in bids to option 2. So why if a bidder has $1000 to spend (options 1 & 2) would they not factor in ANY additional charges (buyers premium/shipping/service charges/handling/etc) and why would they place that extra $100 bid? If your answer is cause they did not count on the additional fees, please explain how the auction house is responsible for the buyer not reading the terms and conditions prior to bidding.

mechanicalman · #13 05-22-2018, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Rob, in your example (option 3), the buyer now pays $1,111.10 total, not $1000. All you did was add an extra $100 in bids to option 2. So why if a bidder has $1000 to spend (options 1 & 2) would they not factor in ANY additional charges (buyers premium/shipping/service charges/handling/etc) and why would they place that extra $100 bid? If your answer is cause they did not count on the additional fees, please explain how the auction house is responsible for the buyer not reading the terms and conditions prior to bidding.

I don't mean to speak for Rob (nor could I), but I think his whole argument is based on the premise that there are a lot of dumb dudes in the hobby who bid irrationally and erroneously because they don't understand rules/math; and ironically, the more I read his posts, the more I think this premise might be accurate.

pokerplyr80 · #14 05-22-2018, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You left out an option.

Option 3) Card still sells for $1,000 and the buyer has to pay an extra $111.10 and the seller gets $1,000.

The notion that every winning bid has been deflated by the value of the BP is ludicrous.

I know there are a lot of stupid people out there, but what percentage of people do you really think dont take the buyer's premium into account when making a bid? Maybe they do it once, then realize when they get the bill. Unless guys are knocking back a few beers waiting for extended bidding to end, I dont see your example coming into play often.

Baseball Rarities · #15 05-22-2018, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

A card (or pennant or slab with a pretty flip etc) with a market value of $1000 is up for auction.

Option 1) 0% buyer premium, 10% seller fee. Top bidder bids $1000. Top bidder pays $1k, auction house gets $100 and seller gets $900.

Option 2) 11.11% buyer premium, 0% seller fee. Top bidder bids $900. Top bidder pays $900 + [buyer premium of $900 x 11.11%] = $1k, auction house gets $100 and seller gets $900

Six in one, half dozen the other.

Exactly. It could not be any more straight-forward. I do not understand the confusion.

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