Supreme Court overturns Quill, subjects all internet transactions to sales tax

steve B · #1 06-21-2018, 10:36 AM

With a small seller, which tax gets charged? Does the sale happen where I am? Where they are?

If I buy something from a seller in NH, which has no sales tax do I pay the MA rate? And if I do, then as it probably works now, the seller gets the MA sales tax and has to file forms to pay it. And probably the forms to be allowed to collect it. Being in NH they probably won't do that, so they benefit by 6.25%
If I sell something to someone in NH, will I have to collect the 6.25% that I'll probably owe Mass?

What a miserable decision. The overhead alone of tracking what's owed to who will probably kill off most small sellers.

Santo10Fan · #2 06-21-2018, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

With a small seller, which tax gets charged? Does the sale happen where I am? Where they are?

If I buy something from a seller in NH, which has no sales tax do I pay the MA rate? And if I do, then as it probably works now, the seller gets the MA sales tax and has to file forms to pay it. And probably the forms to be allowed to collect it. Being in NH they probably won't do that, so they benefit by 6.25%
If I sell something to someone in NH, will I have to collect the 6.25% that I'll probably owe Mass?

What a miserable decision. The overhead alone of tracking what's owed to who will probably kill off most small sellers.

As best I can tell, the sales tax charge will be based on the seller's zip code. The burden will then be on the seller to determine if the item falls under state, local and county tax codes.

glchen · #3 06-21-2018, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santo10Fan

As best I can tell, the sales tax charge will be based on the seller's zip code. The burden will then be on the seller to determine if the item falls under state, local and county tax codes.

I think it will be based upon the buyer's ship to zip code, and not the seller's zip code. Therefore, unless ebay changes their software to automatically collect the tax for all sellers, each seller may have to collect tax for all of their buyers and then send these taxes that they collected to all 50 states (or those that have a sales tax), which would be a huge pain. Right now, I only collect tax for buyers in California, and I have to complete a form every year for that. If I have to do that for all 50 states, it would be a tremendous overhead.

Rhotchkiss · #4 06-21-2018, 11:37 AM

Have not read the decision -- when is it effective? I mean, by what date do sellers need to charge/buyers need to pay, sales tax?

Santo10Fan · #5 06-22-2018, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Have not read the decision -- when is it effective? I mean, by what date do sellers need to charge/buyers need to pay, sales tax?

I assume Supreme Court decisions are effective immediately. South Dakota may be able to retroactively collect from the time the court case began. But if the SC overturns a criminal conviction, that person is freed pronto. If anyone sees sales tax crop up on ebay seller/buyer invoices this week please let me know.

rats60 · #6 06-22-2018, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santo10Fan

I assume Supreme Court decisions are effective immediately. South Dakota may be able to retroactively collect from the time the court case began. But if the SC overturns a criminal conviction, that person is freed pronto. If anyone sees sales tax crop up on ebay seller/buyer invoices this week please let me know.

The South Dakota law says that they can't collect tax retroactively. The Supreme Court pointed this out in their decision as a point to their law being resonable and not placing an undue burden on retailers.

markf31 · #7 06-22-2018, 12:42 PM

It is interesting to note, as I just am finding out myself while reading articles on all if this, that several states including my home state of Pennsylvania (also Oklahoma, and Washington at least) have Marketplace Facilitator Laws in place. Pennsylvania's just went into effect April of this year.

The Marketplace Facilitator Law for PA requires facilitator sites such as Etsy, Ebay and Amazon to either collect sales tax on items purchased by PA residents, or in lieu of collecting the tax the facilitator must supply a notice to the purchaser that sales tax was not collected and that a use tax might be due on the sale by the purchaser. If the facilitator elects the 2nd method of notification, the facilitator must submit to the state an annual report by January 31 of each year to the Pennsylvania Department of Revenue that includes the following:

The purchaser�s name, billing address, delivery address and, if different, the purchaser�s last known mailing address.
The total dollar amount of purchases from this marketplace facilitator.
The name and address of the marketplace facilitator that made the sale.

Each failure to comply with the notice and reporting requirements can result in a penalty of $20,000 per violation, per year, or 20 percent of total Pennsylvania sales during the previous 12 months, whichever is less.

Marketplace Facilitators

So Pennsylvania now has a law on the books, but where the state will now know from information provided by Ebay, Etsy, etc.. how much every resident of Pennsylvania paid for items bought through 3rd part facilitators.

markf31 · #8 06-21-2018, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glchen

I think it will be based upon the buyer's ship to zip code, and not the seller's zip code. Therefore, unless ebay changes their software to automatically collect the tax for all sellers, each seller may have to collect tax for all of their buyers and then send these taxes that they collected to all 50 states (or those that have a sales tax), which would be a huge pain. Right now, I only collect tax for buyers in California, and I have to complete a form every year for that. If I have to do that for all 50 states, it would be a tremendous overhead.

I believe you are correct, that the tax would be based on the buyer's ship to zip code.

This case originated out of South Dakota, which enacted a law that required all merchants to collect a 4.5 percent sales tax if they had more than $100,000 in annual sales or more than 200 individual transactions in the state. State officials sued three large online retailers — Wayfair, Overstock.com and Newegg — for violating the law. Those lawsuits led to this decision today.

I would hope that states, as they move forward with this new taxing power, would institute similar statues in regards to which merchants they would require to collect sales tax.... ie annual sales over X number of dollars or Y number of transactions.

AGuinness · #9 06-21-2018, 01:54 PM

I wonder what impact this will have on COMC, too...

If the SD law is mirrored by other states, the 200 transactions part would be an easy one to surpass just breaking a single box of cards and selling singles. Could be a few hundred transactions at a total of maybe $100...

glchen · #10 06-21-2018, 02:25 PM

The problem with # of transactions in the state (or something similar) is that at the beginning of the year, who knows if you are going to hit that limit. Let's say in a hypothetical case, New York decides that if a seller has 50 or more transactions in that state, you need to collect the sales tax. Based upon my previous sales, I haven't hit 50 in New York before. But then what if by June, you are up to 40 New York sales, so it seems likely you are going to cross the threshold. What are you going to do? You can't retroactively ask those 40 previous New York buyers to cough up sales tax now for the past sales. You'd have to either eat the sales tax amount yourself, or say after sale 49 to New York, try to say that you will no longer sell to New York residents.

bobbyw8469 · #11 06-21-2018, 03:01 PM

What a nightmare.

savedfrommyspokes · #12 06-21-2018, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glchen

I think it will be based upon the buyer's ship to zip code, and not the seller's zip code. Therefore, unless ebay changes their software to automatically collect the tax for all sellers, each seller may have to collect tax for all of their buyers and then send these taxes that they collected to all 50 states (or those that have a sales tax), which would be a huge pain. Right now, I only collect tax for buyers in California, and I have to complete a form every year for that. If I have to do that for all 50 states, it would be a tremendous overhead.

If ebay is able to change their software to both collect and report collections for each state, from there submitting will be a much more manageable task. For my state, I self track my in-state sales and submit one form at year end. It takes me longer to find my password to access my on-line state tax site than it does to submit my taxes. Last year it was less than a 5 min process total to submit for my state. So if ebay automatically tracked and provided a record of all of the annual collections for each state, and each state is as simple as my state, this whole process would probably take no more than an additional 4-5 hours per year.

In regards to increased costs to card collectors, just like every other added cost, sales tax will just get figured into the price. A $3k card will still be a $3k card, now just 5-8% off the price will go to the buyer's state.

I see a whole new venture for online sales tax management.

JustinD · #13 06-21-2018, 10:59 PM

I would doubt eBay has any need to change software, I can not see where that line of thinking is coming from. Much like why you do not charge sales tax at a garage sale, future laws should in all cases not affect a occasional seller on eBay.

As was quoted earlier South Dakota brought this forth will a set of guidelines that the seller have 100k in business or a minimum of 200 transactions. To take it lower as was theorized earlier would be a enforcement nightmare, the states see this as some cash cow, but will soon find the costs of an enforcement group for this will outpace easily the rewards against crossstate small sellers.

This is for large internet sellers and companies.

I would assume that if you are an eBay seller that is big enough to be going after as a state agency and have it think there is a reward in it, you are either already collecting it or known this was coming eventually because you have been using this income on your 1040 as a job.

rats60 · #14 06-22-2018, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinD

I would doubt eBay has any need to change software, I can not see where that line of thinking is coming from. Much like why you do not charge sales tax at a garage sale, future laws should in all cases not affect a occasional seller on eBay.

As was quoted earlier South Dakota brought this forth will a set of guidelines that the seller have 100k in business or a minimum of 200 transactions. To take it lower as was theorized earlier would be a enforcement nightmare, the states see this as some cash cow, but will soon find the costs of an enforcement group for this will outpace easily the rewards against crossstate small sellers.

This is for large internet sellers and companies.

I would assume that if you are an eBay seller that is big enough to be going after as a state agency and have it think there is a reward in it, you are either already collecting it or known this was coming eventually because you have been using this income on your 1040 as a job.

I don't think you will see states going after small retailers. It took South Dakota's levels to get 5 votes in the Supreme Court. Anthony Kennedy, who was the driver of this case, praised South Dakota for taking a moderate approach. He also pointed out that states may not place undue burden on interstate commerce. Trying to collect sales tax on every online sale with individuals would certainly fit. Probstein and PWCC will be affected. Most eBay sellers will not.

JustinD · #15 06-22-2018, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

I don't think you will see states going after small retailers. It took South Dakota's levels to get 5 votes in the Supreme Court. Anthony Kennedy, who was the driver of this case, praised South Dakota for taking a moderate approach. He also pointed out that states may not place undue burden on interstate commerce. Trying to collect sales tax on every online sale with individuals would certainly fit. Probstein and PWCC will be affected. Most eBay sellers will not.

Totally agree on the point with small retailers,

The case was pushed because of Wayfair.com. Those are the folks in the crosshairs, retailers that have millions in sales and only charge tax in states of operations.

ValKehl · #16 06-22-2018, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

I don't think you will see states going after small retailers. It took South Dakota's levels to get 5 votes in the Supreme Court. Anthony Kennedy, who was the driver of this case, praised South Dakota for taking a moderate approach. He also pointed out that states may not place undue burden on interstate commerce. Trying to collect sales tax on every online sale with individuals would certainly fit. Probstein and PWCC will be affected. Most eBay sellers will not.

Sorry to be a contrarian, but unfortunately, I suspect that in the not too distant future, we will see eBay adding sales tax to ALL invoices from ALL sellers, except for purchasers who are exempt because they are resellers. Being a huge organization, it should not be difficult for eBay to do this. eBay would transfer the sales tax info to PayPal so that PayPay can collect the taxes and remit them periodically to all the state and local jurisdictions on behalf of ALL the eBay sellers. Being a huge organization, it should not be difficult for PayPal to accomplish this. While eBay sellers will thus not be burdened, I assume that eBay and/or PayPal will increase their fees to sellers for handling the sales tax collections and remittances.

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