First Time Going to National Convention (Prices better or Worse than eBay)?

[tiger8mush]

Prices are much higher than ebay. Probably 25% more. If it was the same as ebay, the dealers wouldn't show up. They have to pay for tables and gas/hotel/food expenses. You can negotiate / make offers if the sticker price is close to what you want to pay. But if its double, then its probably not worth the effort.

tips:
- wear comfortable sneakers cuz you will do a lot of walking for many hours
- bring a backpack to carry stuff in, including want lists and stuff you buy. Don't lose site of your backpack cuz there are sticky fingers all around.
- bring snacks because the convention food options are often limited and pricey
- unless you see an AMAZING deal, try to do a quick run-thru before buying. Keep track of table numbers with notes about the table contents if you see something you like, because you will THINK it'll be easy to find but after seeing hundreds of tables over multiple hours everything blurs together. Something simple like "T206 Cobb red VG $1k table #88 " will suffice.

Have fun!!!
Rob

[that T206 Guy]

Are there any recommended dealers or NOT recommended dealers?

[that T206 Guy]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Prices are much higher than ebay. Probably 25% more. If it was the same as ebay, the dealers wouldn't show up. They have to pay for tables and gas/hotel/food expenses. You can negotiate / make offers if the sticker price is close to what you want to pay. But if its double, then its probably not worth the effort.

tips:
- wear comfortable sneakers cuz you will do a lot of walking for many hours
- bring a backpack to carry stuff in, including want lists and stuff you buy. Don't lose site of your backpack cuz there are sticky fingers all around.
- bring snacks because the convention food options are often limited and pricey
- unless you see an AMAZING deal, try to do a quick run-thru before buying. Keep track of table numbers with notes about the table contents if you see something you like, because you will THINK it'll be easy to find but after seeing hundreds of tables over multiple hours everything blurs together. Something simple like "T206 Cobb red VG $1k table #88 " will suffice.

Have fun!!!
Rob

When you say 25 Percent More than eBay do you mean?

- 25 Percent more than eBay Buy it Now (Seems like 90 Percent of eBay is BIN these Days). I remember the Good Old Days when eBay was 90 Percent Auctions.

- Or 25 Percent More than eBay Auction Prices.

It seems like eBay Auctions (What I always do) sell for Half of What Buy It Now eBay Prices are.

[that T206 Guy]

I recently got the following on eBay (Auction not Buy it Now).

1950 Bowman Common PSA 8

It was $40

What do you think that card would sell for at the show?

[that T206 Guy]

I am pretty much looking for the following at the show.

1800's Cards (Low Grade PSA)
- Old Judge, Mayo, etc.

1915 Cracker Jack - Lower Grade PSA
1909 T206 - PSA 7 or Less
1933 Goudey - Lower Grades PSA 6 or Less

Common Cards from the 1940's and 1950's in PSA 8 (My Goal is to get one from each year - I currently have 1950 Bowman and Topps 56, 57, 58, 59)

[that T206 Guy]

Also I am OCD about my PSA Cards.

I only buy Originals that are in the Original Style Flip (from the 1990's) with the Rounded Corners.

The Square ones Drive me Nuts.

I guess I don't like change LOL.

It seems like I have to look at like 200 Square Flips just to Find One Round Flip from the 1990's on eBay.

That is the Main Reason I am going to the show as I only buy on eBay and it takes forever Squinting my Eyes to Find the OLD PSA Holders on eBay.

Will those be hard to find at the show (More or Less Common than eBay).

If they are Non-Existant at the Show I might as well just stay home and Skip the Show.

[that T206 Guy]

I also want Raw Ungraded Cards for my Type Set Binder (One Card from Each Year).

I am just worried about Fakes being they are not Graded as there are Fakes on eBay.

Have you seen any Fake Non-Graded Cards at the Show or are all the Dealers Very Honest?

Are Ungraded Cards alot Cheaper than Graded ones of the Same Grade or No?

[that T206 Guy]

Sorry for all the Questions.

I just don't want to go if it is a waste of time for me.

[polakoff]

Just wanted to weigh in as a small time dealer.

I price all my cards at or sometimes below ebay. I sell mostly (95%) raw vintage, with the bulk of my cards being $5 and under. I price my cards for the National the same as I do for any show, because as a collector I'd be going to the National anyway whether I sold or not, therefore my only extra expense is my table. Since I share a table, it isn't too expensive, and I make that up on volume over what I'd do at a regular local show. I also give bulk discounts.

I found in Atlantic City (didn't go last year) that there were a lot of dealers who do the same as me -- and also a lot who mark their stuff up to exorbitant prices. To the original poster, I'd just say, there's so much stuff there that you'll find everything in every price range.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by that T206 Guy

I only buy Originals that are in the Original Style Flip (from the 1990's) with the Rounded Corners.

Just Common Cards.
- PSA 7 and PSA 8 From the 1940's and 1950's of Common Players
- 1909 T206 in PSA 1-7 of Common Players
- Stuff Like that

You need to try and get over the OCD on style of flip, and just focus on the cards inside. While I'm sure there will always be some in the old flips, certainly most of the Hall of Famers are probably in new flips by now. Consider those "bonus finds" - not requirements.

There are tons of T206 commons, several dealers where that will be most of what they have to sell. There will also be some 1940/1950 commons graded, but those will probably be a little tougher to locate. Again, you'll have some folks that have stacks of them.

Prices will normally be marked high, but if you're paying in cash and buying in somewhat bulk, you can usually get them down to reasonable. Everyone knows what VCP is, you'll just have to wade through all the "great eye appeal for the grade" talk.

Yes, some dealers try to bake in the table cost, but if you use the 10-12% eBay fee as the baseline, I've found most of the sellers will split that with you. For the sellers, if they can just get eBay price that's better, so don't just settle for it. Most dealers mark up to have room to wiggle.

Don't worry about all the deals being gone on Tuesday or to the VIPs. I do the VIP just because I'm usually there for a few days anyway and don't like to stand in line, but I've been to the past three Nationals (and three others before that) and every time I've found things at good prices at different times during the show. Two years ago, got my best deals halfway through Thursday. Last year I was shut out Wed/Thurs, but then ran out of money around noon Friday. You never know when you're going to find something, and new cards walk into the show every day.

It will be overwhelming, so just be ready for that. I usually have a list with prices so I can move quickly, ask questions when I see something and negotiate as quickly as I can if it's just buying. If the seller won't get in your range, just move on to the next table. If you spend even a minute at every table in the show, you won't see everything on the first day.

I also take notes of booth numbers, especially if something is priced a little too high. I'll go back later and if it's still there, I might then start a conversation.

If you see something you like that is priced fair, I would tell you to go ahead and buy it then because it probably won't be there later. Common cards that's probably not as true, but with stars/Hall of Famers it definitely has been my experience.

Good luck

[ValKehl]

Rob, I agree with you re prices, except for the many eBay museums that have BIN prices that are greatly in excess of what one is likely to find at the NSCC, IMO.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Prices are much higher than ebay. Probably 25% more. If it was the same as ebay, the dealers wouldn't show up. They have to pay for tables and gas/hotel/food expenses. You can negotiate / make offers if the sticker price is close to what you want to pay. But if its double, then its probably not worth the effort.

tips:
- wear comfortable sneakers cuz you will do a lot of walking for many hours
- bring a backpack to carry stuff in, including want lists and stuff you buy. Don't lose site of your backpack cuz there are sticky fingers all around.
- bring snacks because the convention food options are often limited and pricey
- unless you see an AMAZING deal, try to do a quick run-thru before buying. Keep track of table numbers with notes about the table contents if you see something you like, because you will THINK it'll be easy to find but after seeing hundreds of tables over multiple hours everything blurs together. Something simple like "T206 Cobb red VG $1k table #88 " will suffice.

Have fun!!!
Rob

It just depends. I have found dealers that are very much in line with Ebay/Auction Houses. They understand that Ebay/PayPal takes 13%, Auction Houses ~20%. They can sell enough where their expenses are covered by what they don't have to give to Ebay/Auction Houses. Then you have dealers who have museum prices and are trying to cover their expenses on a couple sales.

[that T206 Guy]

Originally Posted by rats60

It just depends. I have found dealers that are very much in line with Ebay/Auction Houses. They understand that Ebay/PayPal takes 13%, Auction Houses ~20%. They can sell enough where their expenses are covered by what they don't have to give to Ebay/Auction Houses. Then you have dealers who have museum prices and are trying to cover their expenses on a couple sales.

Awesome.

Glad to hear that.

I have seen a few people say "Museum Prices" on this Forum.

What does that actually mean?

Like Double or Triple what a Card is Really Worth?

Does it only Apply to Star Players or PSA 9 and 10

I am just Buying Commons in the Highest Grade I can Afford.

I am looking to Spend $60 Max from cards in the 1940's and 1950's

Maybe $100 to $300 for Older Stuff like Old Judge and T206

Does that stuff get Marked up to "Museum Prices" or is it only stuff like Mickey Mantle Rookies that are "Museum Prices"?

[griffon512]

"Prices are much higher than ebay. Probably 25% more. If it was the same as ebay, the dealers wouldn't show up."

I disagree with this statement in one of the posts because it's too much of a generalization. Some dealers will be very overpriced and some will be in-line to better than a comparable auction house price, and everything in between. Like with everything else it depends on the dealer's cost basis/financial situation, how long it's been in their inventory, etc. If there is a general statement that I think is true it's that people shouldn't go to the show looking for bargains. That rarely happens for popular vintage cards at these conventions because the dealers are familiar with market prices...but if you work the floor you may get lucky.

[that T206 Guy]

Originally Posted by griffon512

"Prices are much higher than ebay. Probably 25% more. If it was the same as ebay, the dealers wouldn't show up."

I disagree with this statement in one of the posts because it's too much of a generalization. Some dealers will be very overpriced and some will be in-line to better than a comparable auction house price, and everything in between. Like with everything else it depends on the dealer's cost basis/financial situation, how long it's been in their inventory, etc. If there is a general statement that I think is true it's that people shouldn't go to the show looking for bargains. That rarely happens for popular vintage cards at these conventions because the dealers are familiar with market prices...but if you work the floor you may get lucky.

When you say 25 Percent More than eBay do you mean?

- 25 Percent more than eBay Buy it Now (Seems like 90 Percent of eBay is BIN these Days). I remember the Good Old Days when eBay was 90 Percent Auctions.

- Or 25 Percent More than eBay Auction Prices.

It seems like eBay Auctions (What I always do) sell for Half of What Buy It Now eBay Prices are.

[iowadoc77]

You aren't going to get exact answers to most of your questions. If you are solely going there to find great deals, better buy a VIP tag and be running in when the doors open ready to buy immediately the first thing you see that is close to what you want.
The National is an experience and, IMHO, a tremendous one at that. I love to see stuff that I have never seen in person. I love to have conversations and meet great people. I usually buy a few cards and mostly get some great time with my 13 year old and 16 year old sons.
Just my 2 cents worth, but you will get much more out of it if you are going for the experience of it. And bonus if you get some good buys.
Eric

[Exhibitman]

You just gotta go, dig in, and work the room. All of the obvious great deals are gone before the show even opens by way of dealer to dealer sales, but there are tons of great items available at great prices, if you do the legwork. Flexibility is key: if you go there thinking that you are going to look for one rare card only, you probably will leave empty-handed. I find it best to go with a detailed want list across everything I collect but also ready to snap up whatever I come across that I can easily flip or trade. And then there are the offbeat things you find that you just cannot anticipate.

I figure that by the end of the show I will have physically shuffled through over 100,000 cards and looked at untold thousands more.

[that T206 Guy]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

You just gotta go, dig in, and work the room. All of the obvious great deals are gone before the show even opens by way of dealer to dealer sales, but there are tons of great items available at great prices, if you do the legwork. Flexibility is key: if you go there thinking that you are going to look for one rare card only, you probably will leave empty-handed. I find it best to go with a detailed want list across everything I collect but also ready to snap up whatever I come across that I can easily flip or trade. And then there are the offbeat things you find that you just cannot anticipate.

I figure that by the end of the show I will have physically shuffled through over 100,000 cards and looked at untold thousands more.

I am not looking for Crazy Expensive Stuff or HOF.

Just Common Cards.
- PSA 7 and PSA 8 From the 1940's and 1950's of Common Players
- 1909 T206 in PSA 1-7 of Common Players
- Stuff Like that

Do Commons Sell before the Show Starts?

I would assume you are talking about Mantle Rookies and Stuff like that.

Or Am I Wrong?

[that T206 Guy]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

You just gotta go, dig in, and work the room. All of the obvious great deals are gone before the show even opens by way of dealer to dealer sales, but there are tons of great items available at great prices, if you do the legwork. Flexibility is key: if you go there thinking that you are going to look for one rare card only, you probably will leave empty-handed. I find it best to go with a detailed want list across everything I collect but also ready to snap up whatever I come across that I can easily flip or trade. And then there are the offbeat things you find that you just cannot anticipate.

I figure that by the end of the show I will have physically shuffled through over 100,000 cards and looked at untold thousands more.

I understand what you are saying about the "Experience"

I have seen YouTube Videos with Old Game Used Jerseys and 1909 T206 Wagners.

I am Excited to see Rare Stuff like that.

Seems like a TON of Fun.

But I DON'T want to come back without any Cards Either

[Rich Klein]

And sometimes dealers will have material ready for you if they you look for certain cards.

Last year in Chicago, a dealer I know for many years and was a good Regional Correspondence when I was at Beckett knew I loved the Topps buy back cards. Well he loaded me up with about 1200 cards at such a good price I had my money out before he finished the sentence.

Regards
Rich

[ValKehl]

Steve, I say this in all sincerity. If you consider yourself a serious vintage card collector, and I sense that you do, then you absolutely, positively must attend at least one National in your lifetime. As I see it, this is the only way you will get ALL of your questions answered to your satisfaction. And, besides, you will really enjoy the experience - I guarantee it! I note that you are in Michigan, and with most of the Nationals these years being held in Cleveland and Chicago, I assume you won't have nearly as long a journey to make as most other collectors do. FYI, I have attended 15-20 Nationals, and I still look forward to attending them like a kid looks forward to going to a toy store.