Another high end sticker -- "PC"??

[Peter_Spaeth]

[QUOTE=mechanicalman;1800923]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You didn’t answer my question directly, so I’ll try again, but with a more likely premise.

The other Beethoven 8 sold 2 months ago, but was borderline o/c. It went for $2k. Now yours is up for auction with a postive qualifier. Does the qualifier make you feel BETTER or not about the probability of yours selling for north of $2?

Honestly, no, because the buyers can see that it's better centered and the AH can tell them that. I don't think the qualifier which just states the obvious adds anything. Would you add a sticker to a Picasso being sold that said, good eye appeal?

[mechanicalman]

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;1800925]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Honestly, no, because the buyers can see that it's better centered and the AH can tell them that. I don't think the qualifier which just states the obvious adds anything. Would you add a sticker to a Picasso being sold that said, good eye appeal?

So, to be clear, if your card had a designation from the industry’s largest TPG implying that your card was aesthetically better than the benchmark, you WOULD NOT have any greater confidence that your card would sell for more. In fact, you believe nothing more could be done to drive the value of your card beyond a scan and the wildly impartial write-up of the AH compensated for selling your card.

OK. I don’t find that rational, so we’ll have to agree to disagree. I wish you a good rest of your Sunday, my friend.

[Peter_Spaeth]

[QUOTE=mechanicalman;1800934]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So, to be clear, if your card had a designation from the industry’s largest TPG implying that your card was aesthetically better than the benchmark, you WOULD NOT have any greater confidence that your card would sell for more. In fact, you believe nothing more could be done to drive the value of your card beyond a scan and the wildly impartial write-up of the AH compensated for selling your card.

OK. I don’t find that rational, so we’ll have to agree to disagree. I wish you a good rest of your Sunday, my friend.

May your evening be well-centered.

Funny, the last two posts show both of us as quoting ourselves, not the other.

[barrysloate]

The one thing a TPG does that is indispensable, assuming they get it right, is to determine whether or not a card has been altered. Most collectors can't do that themselves. After that, I don't know. The numerical grades are dubious at best, and really of use primarily to the registry crowd. And any collector can determine if he is happy with the centering. That's just a visual.

The 1971 Clemente is a beautiful looking card and deserves the choice designation, but I want that sticker put on by a third party, and not by the seller himself. If the seller did it, it has no meaning at all.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If the seller did it, it has no meaning at all.

That seems obvious to me as well but people see it differently.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The one thing a TPG does that is indispensable, assuming they get it right, is to determine whether or not a card has been altered. Most collectors can't do that themselves. After that, I don't know. The numerical grades are dubious at best, and really of use primarily to the registry crowd. And any collector can determine if he is happy with the centering. That's just a visual.

The 1971 Clemente is a beautiful looking card and deserves the choice designation, but I want that sticker put on by a third party, and not by the seller himself. If the seller did it, it has no meaning at all.

So the TPG verifies that the card is not altered. Got it.
The numerical grade is needed only for the registry crowd. Got it.
But who authenticates that the sticker is authentic, and does contain the DNA of the seller. Such authentication would be of benefit to blind collectors.

It seems odd to me that the hobby's migration to "centering" as the primary quality with an influence in the pricing matrix seemingly rendering other grading metrics marginal. And yet that number and the three letters on the flip still carry a fair amount of weight to buyers, whether they can open their eyes or not to assess centering.

Buy numbers, buy stickers, buy flips and the company affixed to them, buy centered, buy scrap, buy rarity, buy scarcity or simply buy a card you want and sit back and watch the circus. Diversity should be lauded by all, even if there is absolutely no agreement about what this hobby is all about.

The centering train is the third rail of card collecting and more power to those of you who have a ticket.

And for those of you who disagree (and why wouldn't you?), rest assured that I am fully prepared to spend my "time out" in my sharpest corner as long as I can have cold beer in the meantime. Please do not make any offers, I have wrinkles.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The one thing a TPG does that is indispensable, assuming they get it right, is to determine whether or not a card has been altered.

Unfortunately they aren't even consistent here. I bought this Bender T213-1 graded SGC 30 in Fall 2016 in REA. Cracked it, put it in my binder, then decided to sell it this summer. Sent it to LOTG, along with the original flip, and SGC only gave it an A. Its in their current auction, I'm sure it'll eventually find its way back to a number grade when someone else submits it ...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Unfortunately they aren't even consistent here. I bought this Bender T213-1 graded SGC 30 in Fall 2016 in REA. Cracked it, put it in my binder, then decided to sell it this summer. Sent it to LOTG, along with the original flip, and SGC only gave it an A. Its in their current auction, I'm sure it'll eventually find its way back to a number grade when someone else submits it ...

Very common from what I know --- many cards go through various holders before coming to rest in their optimum one, including rejections along the way. I've seen journeys like 4-A-6-A-5-7. Sometimes I think it can be genuinely hard to tell. There are highly skilled card doctors out there. Other times, maybe the grader wasn't so expert.

[barrysloate]

I know Rob, the whole process is very frustrating. Where is the consistency? Where even is the expertise?

[mechanicalman]

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;1800940]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

May your evening be well-centered.

Funny, the last two posts show both of us as quoting ourselves, not the other.

LOL