Do You Like the Provenance on the Flip?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Corey, your post assumes people care if cards are altered. I question the extent to which that's true for many of the new generation of buyers/investors whose eyes don't seem to go below the flip, or who just assume the TPG got it right.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Corey, your post assumes people care if cards are altered. I question the extent to which that's true for many of the new generation of buyers/investors whose eyes don't seem to go below the flip, or who just assume the TPG got it right.

You could be right Peter, but ironic isn't it the notion that this new generation might not care if the card has been altered as long as the flip says what they want it to say? Wasn't the prime rationale for the creation of TPG to give collectors the needed assurance there was no monkey business going on with the cards?

It wouldn't surprise me if the next area of collectibles that explodes in value are full-production-run uncut sheets that contain HOFers. In theory they can be cut to create gem mint cards, and I'm not buying it that the process can't be done in a way to dupe the grader.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Corey allegedly that was the point of TPG, but look how it started, with ASA and then with PSA slabbing the Wagner. The Harris Collection. I could go on. PSA has commoditized the flip. It's marketing genius even if it doesn't sit well with old timers/purists.

[benjulmag]

If and when the time comes that somebody does a nationally distributed expose on the tremendous number of graded altered cards, perhaps things might change. It would not be too hard to show the alterations -- simple comparison blowups of edges and corners of altered versus unaltered cards is all that would be needed in most cases.

I recognize I might be old school, but it still blows my mind to see blatantly altered high grade condition rarities sell for crazy prices.

Is it possible that this new generation of collectors/investors might care if they really understood what is going on?

[barrysloate]

I'm not sure that even a major scandal would have an effect, because there is too much money at stake. Plus, in our post-truth world, if a label says it's NR MT, and I say it's NR MT, then we all will accept the fact that it's NR MT. People with millions of dollars invested in cards will call a scandal fake news and simply ignore it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

If and when the time comes that somebody does a nationally distributed expose on the tremendous number of graded altered cards, perhaps things might change. It would not be too hard to show the alterations -- simple comparison blowups of edges and corners of alerted versus unaltered cards is all that would be needed in most cases.

I recognize I might be old school, but it still blows my mind to see blatantly altered high grade condition rarities sell for crazy prices.

Is it possible that this new generation of collectors/investors might care if they really understood what is going on?

People seem far more interested in excess shipping charges than card alteration.

[Exhibitman]

With regard to the OP, there are some collectors who think it is more fun to own a card that a famous person or a hobby pioneer once owned. Whether it translates into a premium remains to be seen. I know that I would definitely ask a premium for my Burdick-stamped E80 Jack Johnson card.

It also might be fun to create my own 'brand' for my cards. If the TPGs allowed that I might go for it. Sure as hell would be one way to show whose collection they are from.

[Lorewalker]

With respect to the original topic I certainly place no additional value on provenance on the label. I would pay, and have paid, a premium for a nice example of a card but would not pay a premium because it happened to be owned by someone.