Am I the only one who thinks the difference between PSA 9's and 10's is crazy?

Peter_Spaeth · #1 09-07-2018, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royalsfan8515

Sorry I'm a newbie..my apologies...Do u agree it's crazy tho?

As a collector yes, as an investor no because investors buy flips not cards and as Jesse said flip values are driven by populations and set registries and, frankly, egos.

Royalsfan8515 · #2 09-07-2018, 06:37 PM

So u guys think from an investment standpoint I should invest in 10's over 9's

pokerplyr80 · #3 09-07-2018, 06:44 PM

I would take a 10 over a 9 of it's in the budget for most cards, especially if you're doing so for investment purposes. This could backfire if a scandal forced PSA to go under though.

Royalsfan8515 · #4 09-07-2018, 06:48 PM

Ya..its like...I can get a PSA 9 for 45 bucks....or a PSA 10 for 350 plus...seems crazy

jayandbutton · #5 09-08-2018, 08:33 AM

seems like a relatively new sport is to submit a stack of 9s for review, hoping to catch one or two to be upgraded to a 10.

i have perhaps one hundred or more 58 and 59 topps cards for example in 9 and have been tempted because tens bring lunar prices.

Throttlesteer · #6 09-08-2018, 10:41 AM

Don't let your head spin too much over BGS 10 "pristine"

Hankphenom · #7 09-11-2018, 10:29 AM

The whole system seems crazy to me when a "1" can be a card soaked in diesel fuel and driven over by a tank OR a nice-looking card with rounded corners and some paper loss, whereas the difference between a "9" and a "10" requires an electronic microscope to determine. If the scale is 1 to 10, shouldn't the gradations between them be at least somewhat similar?

Lorewalker · #8 09-08-2018, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayandbutton

seems like a relatively new sport is to submit a stack of 9s for review, hoping to catch one or two to be upgraded to a 10.

I thought that was a new angle too but apparently that has been going on since shortly after the birth of grading, from countless stories I have been told.

bbnut · #9 09-08-2018, 09:27 PM

There is always a risk of a market-crashing bubble popping. I figure it's like a big earthquake in the S. F. Bay Area (where I live). Eventually it's going to happen to those exponentially-high 9's and 10's. Might be next year, might be a decade away.

hcv123 · #10 09-08-2018, 09:44 PM

MOst of this has been said already:

Simply supply and demand economics drive this - when there are more buyers than cards in a given grade, it drives prices higher. Less cards in a given grade than buyers, drives the prices down.

Problem - The "investors" buy the flips"
Opportunity - Buy the card not the flip at any grade level - Not all 7's, 8's, 9's or 10's are created equal.

Question - are you buying for enjoyment, investment or some of both? More for enjoyment - buy the lower grades with great eye appeal. Investment - the higher grades with great eye appeal. both - well, you are going to have to figure out the balance that works for you!

For me - I pay strong for cards in high grade with an absolute lack of supply - An example would be a PSA 7- 9 copy of cards where there are only 20 or less graded (in any grade). I don't pay strong for a graded 7-9, where there are hundreds or thousands of total graded copies

darwinbulldog · #11 09-19-2018, 09:30 AM

The Rickey Henderson rookie has a multiplier of like 100x.

conor912 · #12 09-07-2018, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As a collector yes, as an investor no because investors buy flips not cards and as Jesse said flip values are driven by populations and set registries and, frankly, egos.

+1 on the egos

Frankly, half the time I can't tell the difference between an 8 and a 10, let alone a 9.

Royalsfan8515 · #13 09-07-2018, 07:25 PM

just seems like there is much more room for growth as an investor to a 9...how much crazier can a 10 get than a 9? 25x the value?

swarmee · #14 09-07-2018, 07:29 PM

Sounds like you're talking mostly about modern PSA 10s. Don't pay 10x premiums for PSA 10s from 1980 to today. Get the 9 and save the money.

swarmee · #15 09-07-2018, 07:29 PM

*double post*

Royalsfan8515 · #16 09-07-2018, 07:32 PM

i mean...for instance a 1981 Joe Montana rookie...a graded 4 is book value 50 bucks(not very good condition really)...an 8.5 is 300...6x the value and a massive difference in condition. While a 9 is 1000, and a gem mint 10 goes for 14,000(a very minor difference in condition). i mean it is what it is, just seems a bit much

Peter_Spaeth · #17 09-07-2018, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royalsfan8515

i mean...for instance a 1981 Joe Montana rookie...a graded 4 is book value 50 bucks(not very good condition really)...an 8.5 is 300...6x the value and a massive difference in condition. While a 9 is 1000, and a gem mint 10 goes for 14,000(a very minor difference in condition). i mean it is what it is, just seems a bit much

And yet that's what it is. You're imposing collector values is your mistake.

2dueces · #18 09-08-2018, 08:18 AM

Buy what you like and can afford. A PSA 9 Montana is an outstanding card that would look great in any collection. Just think of all the other cards you can purchase with the money you saved over a 10. With the naked eye you�ll never see the difference.

Peter_Spaeth · #19 09-07-2018, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royalsfan8515

just seems like there is much more room for growth as an investor to a 9...how much crazier can a 10 get than a 9? 25x the value?

I see no logic to that at all. You're assuming your conclusion that 10 values are crazy.

ls7plus · #20 09-10-2018, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As a collector yes, as an investor no because investors buy flips not cards and as Jesse said flip values are driven by populations and set registries and, frankly, egos.

Pretty well-stated by Pete. It's all in whether you are interested in substance or hype, fluff and especially ego. With cards that are plentiful in higher grades--say 7 or higher--there is no way that you can truly say that you're actually buying the card, rather than the plastic holder and paper slip inside. There is just not anywhere near as much substantive difference between a "9" and a "10" as the price difference would indicate. You'll notice, I believe, that the percentage increase between grades is not nearly so large in cards that are rare and significant in any grade. That having been said, I wouldn't expect the situation to change anytime soon.

Happy collecting to all,

Larry

Leon · #21 09-11-2018, 07:43 AM

I agree. Everyone wants the "best" so they go for a 10. In reality, imo, there is no difference except the number on the paper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls7plus

Pretty well-stated by Pete. It's all in whether you are interested in substance or hype, fluff and especially ego. With cards that are plentiful in higher grades--say 7 or higher--there is no way that you can truly say that you're actually buying the card, rather than the plastic holder and paper slip inside. There is just not anywhere near as much substantive difference between a "9" and a "10" as the price difference would indicate. You'll notice, I believe, that the percentage increase between grades is not nearly so large in cards that are rare and significant in any grade. That having been said, I wouldn't expect the situation to change anytime soon.

Happy collecting to all,

Larry

Peter_Spaeth · #22 09-11-2018, 08:59 AM

How great would it be if each flip showed the card's grading history?

Seriously I think many people fail to appreciate how the same cards have gone through many grades before their final destination.

Orioles1954 · #23 09-11-2018, 09:17 AM

I personally know of one card that was re-subbed 6 times and went from a PSA 6 to PSA 10.

Peter_Spaeth · #24 09-11-2018, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I personally know of one card that was re-subbed 6 times and went from a PSA 6 to PSA 10.

I knew of one, and I may not get this exactly right, that went something like 4 6 rejected 5 rejected 7. I know of a Seaver rookie that went up the ladder 8 9 10. And so on.

ls7plus · #25 09-11-2018, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How great would it be if each flip showed the card's grading history?

Seriously I think many people fail to appreciate how the same cards have gone through many grades before their final destination.

Interesting proposition, Pete. I acquired a 1957 Topps #1 Ted Williams at the National in Cleveland in SGC Near Mint to Mint plus, apparently because it has a near microscopic black smudge on the back. Otherwise, the card is very nearly perfectly centered with perfect corners (probably from one of Mr. Mint's unopened finds) and appears to be either a "10," or at a minimum, a very, very strong "9." Since I got it and a PSA 9 Santo rookie for $3,100 total, and the Williams in "9" has generally been going for around $7500, the idea has certainly crossed my mind to break it out and resubmit it 6-10X if necessary to attempt to get that mint 9 designation. Hmmm...

Best always,

Larry

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