1948-49 Leaf vs. 1952 Topps

Lorewalker · #1 09-27-2018, 12:06 PM

I am fascinated by this, Ted, so I have now read the backs of 62 different cards from the Leaf set. To further my earlier point on my previous post, all 62 cards refer to the 1948 season and either list stats or highlight an event of that season. On one of the cards, #66 Orval Grove, which bares a 1948 copyright date, it actually refers to a "winter deal" that brought Early Wynn to the Indians.

I looked up the date of that winter deal and it took place on Dec 14, 1948. There is just no conceivable way that these cards were issued at anytime in 1948. I don't think Vistaprint and Fed Ex were around in 1948 where these cards could have been printed, packed and distributed between Dec 15 and Dec 31.

In case that is not convincing can anyone name a card issue that was released in a particular calendar year in which the stats referenced the season of that same year? It has been the practice of all card companies to release cards in the calendar reflecting the previous season's stats, etc.

This is absolutely not a 1948 issue. It is a 1949 issue and only 1949. I do not know copyright law but there has to be some legal explanation for some cards to bare the 1948 date and why some show 1949. If the presence of the 1948 copyright date is the only factor that determines that this is a 1948 issue then the hobby has the wrong date on this Leaf set.

Exhibitman · #2 09-27-2018, 12:34 PM

The copyright date reflects the year the item was submitted to the Library of Congress, not the date of commercial issue of the set. I can copyright a book today and not offer it for sale until next year.

Beware of errors of inductive reasoning: Reference to an event on a card indicates only that the copy on the card was drafted no earlier than the day after that event, not that it was issued on a specific date after that. For example, referring to a December 8, 1948 trade on a card means that the card bio was written some time after 12/8/48. Saying it was issued in 1949 is an assumption based on the likely date of issue given that bio; not saying it is wrong, just that it is not direct evidence. What if Leaf rolled out the set for Christmas? It would be a 1948 issue.

Lorewalker · #3 09-27-2018, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The copyright date reflects the year the item was submitted to the Library of Congress, not the date of commercial issue of the set. I can copyright a book today and not offer it for sale until next year.

Beware of errors of inductive reasoning: Reference to an event on a card indicates only that the copy on the card was drafted no earlier than the day after that event, not that it was issued on a specific date after that. For example, referring to a December 8, 1948 trade on a card means that the card bio was written some time after 12/8/48. Saying it was issued in 1949 is an assumption based on the likely date of issue given that bio; not saying it is wrong, just that it is not direct evidence. What if Leaf rolled out the set for Christmas? It would be a 1948 issue.

Thanks for the copyright explanation, Adam, so it could certainly be argued that if the copyright date is what is being used to call this a 1948 issue it could be flawed?

Assuming there is no card back that references a New Year's Eve party, a referenced trade that took place on Dec 14th I don't think would in all likelihood give Leaf enough time to print, pack and truck product to the be on the shelves for Christmas. With 11 days until Christmas how many days in advance of Christmas would a company want to get their product on the shelves in front of consumers? Baseball season was long over and football was in mid stride. I guess anything is possible for a company who employed skip numbers on their set but issuing baseball cards in the dead of winter seems like financial suicide.

Chase

tedzan · #4 09-27-2018, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The copyright date reflects the year the item was submitted to the Library of Congress, not the date of commercial issue of the set. I can copyright a book today and not offer it for sale until next year.

Beware of errors of inductive reasoning: Reference to an event on a card indicates only that the copy on the card was drafted no earlier than the day after that event, not that it was issued on a specific date after that. For example, referring to a December 8, 1948 trade on a card means that the card bio was written some time after 12/8/48. Saying it was issued in 1949 is an assumption based on the likely date of issue given that bio; not saying it is wrong, just that it is not direct evidence. What if Leaf rolled out the set for Christmas? It would be a 1948 issue.

Hi Adam

Copyright ('48 or '49) has created this dilemma for decades. And, a good part of this is because there aren't too many dudes here as old as I am that remember when we collected
these LEAF BB cards as kids. I have said it in a prior post in this thread. But, I guess I'll have to reprise it again: "I have compared notes with old-timers in the hobby who collected
these cards in their youth. And, absolutely NO ONE recalls purchasing these cards in 1948.

However, some here do not accept this fact. So, I appeal to your common sense of logic....with the dated facts on these player's bios, and Orval Grove's bio (thanks to Lorewalker),
which alludes to the Dec 14, 1948 Grove / Wynn deal....how the hell can anyone think that this set of BB cards was issued in 1948 ? ?

MVP in 1948 (announced in mid-December 1948) �... Gustine traded to Cubs on December 8, 1948 .��. "Should sizzle into his old stride this year" (1949)

.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

View Poll Results: Which set is better to collect next? (PSA 4 or 5)
1948-49 Leaf	12	19.05%
1952 Topps	30	47.62%
Both are great. Doesn't matter.	21	33.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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