Pele Rookie? 1958 Diario De Noite

[Collect Equity]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

No, it doesn't. There are supposed to be 175 different cards in the Quigol set (winner cards included). The Quigols were also released by a company that was printing other cards as well. Brazilians call these cards "figurinhas." The stuff you're posting is very different. They are not figurinhas.

Good points! You can make a strong case.

For me the jury is still out, however. I agree that the Quigols are considered "figurinhas" and I don't know if people in Brazil would consider these as "figurinhas" or not. I am also not sure what makes "figurinhas" worthy of being a rookie card (considering it isn't a card at all). But if you removed just the Pele card/stamp from the above and had it graded then would it qualify?

If it is just whether or not it is a reputable publishing company, then we really need to know more about the Diario Noite company. Did these come in a set and were they distributed in the same was as Quigols? And if so, then would it qualify or is there still something about them that doesn't?

[Collect Equity]

In trying to establish a date of release, from what I can tell all of the Diario Noites 'stamps' seem to be of photos from 1958. In fact, two share images of other cards printed in or near 1958 - the Balas Futebol and the Titulares #50.

Best of all, if you happen to have doubles of the Titulares but are still missing the Diario Noites 'stamp,' you could just cut out Pele's head on the Titulares and then you'd have created a home-made Diario Noites

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by Collect Equity

In trying to establish a date of release, from what I can tell all of the Diario Noites 'stamps' seem to be of photos from 1958. In fact, two share images of other cards printed in or near 1958 - the Balas Futebol and the Titulares #50.

Best of all, if you happen to have doubles of the Titulares but are still missing the Diario Noites 'stamp,' you could just cut out Pele's head on the Titulares and then you'd have created a home-made Diario Noites

They appear to use the image of the Titulares (which was 1958) and the Balas (also 1958). These particular issues are a "homage" to the winning 1958 World Cup team, which at the very least means that they were published AFTER the World cup (but potentially still in 1958 - potentially August - which is on one of the cardboard).

Since the WC was held in June, we can - with certainty - predate the ALFA rookie card to these cards... but still likely 1958 issues, which means that many would still consider them "rookies". As mentioned in may other posts, there is a lot of data that suggests that the Quigol is a 1959 or 1960 card and many still consider than his rookie. I tend to put the Titulares album as issued prior to the World Cup as well as it does not proclaim victory anywhere and the title infers "starters". The "safest" Pele rookies to me are the ALFA, Titulares (though PSA is no longer grading them) and the VAV cards.

Anyway, the rookie designation is (somewhat) in the eye of the beholder.

[Anish]

Great stuff. I have no issue calling it a RC.

What is the card pictured above the one with the titulares image? That’s an awesome looking card

[Anish]

Originally Posted by Anish

Great stuff. I have no issue calling it a RC.

What is the card pictured above the one with the titulares image? That’s an awesome looking card

I guess this answers my question.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PELE-1958-R...sAAOSw3npb2144

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Anish

I guess this answers my question.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PELE-1958-R...sAAOSw3npb2144

These cards are pretty rare and they look awesome, but there are a few things that are bothering me here: firstly, I have not been able to find the album these cards came from, and secondly, were these cards really made in 1958? A lot of collectors see 1958 on the back and assume that is the date of manufacture - this is not true. It simply says that they won the World Cup in Sweden 1958.

Maybe Al can help us with this one ...

[Anish]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

These cards are pretty rare and they look awesome, but there are a few things that are bothering me here: firstly, I have not been able to find the album these cards came from, and secondly, were these cards really made in 1958? A lot of collectors see 1958 on the back and assume that is the date of manufacture - this is not true. It simply says that they won the World Cup in Sweden 1958.

Maybe Al can help us with this one ...

Well, they seem to feature the 1958 Brazil WC squad and a young looking Pele, so I don’t imagine they could have come out much later.

Really gorgeous cards either way. Has anyone seen any sales of the Pele?

[samosa4u]

Here, I found this last night:



It looks similar to the one the OP posted. If you compare them, you will also notice that the image posted by the OP looks like it was damaged by UV rays. This leads me to believe that it was probably a store window display.

Again, if I got some window display from 1951 that features the New York Yankees, and I were to cut out the Mickey Mantle, do you think I could call it a 'rookie?' You Americans would laugh in my face if I did that, right?

Now I do understand that it's different when it comes to soccer cards, because they were issued in other countries, and they come in all sizes and shapes, however, a lot of the old rules that were laid out by Beckett still apply. For example, for any card to be considered a 'rookie' it has to come from a set. It also has to be a base card as well. Pretty much all the vintage soccer cards that we discuss on this forum meet this criteria.

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by Anish

I guess this answers my question.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PELE-1958-R...sAAOSw3npb2144

That auction got one bid (not mine) at 10k!

While I believe this to probably be a 1958 issue, I am not 100% sure, which is why I could not bid. Given the fact that it is a homage to the 1958 winning squad, at least we know that it is AFTER the 1958 World Cup. That said, I imagine that everyone would be trying to capitalize on the victory in close proximity to the World Cup from an advertising perspective.

At the very least my guess would be late 1958 or early 1959 - though I am still trying to track down the album (of which many did not have dates, anyway).

[Anish]

Originally Posted by aljurgela

That auction got one bid (not mine) at 10k!

While I believe this to probably be a 1958 issue, I am not 100% sure, which is why I could not bid. Given the fact that it is a homage to the 1958 winning squad, at least we know that it is AFTER the 1958 World Cup. That said, I imagine that everyone would be trying to capitalize on the victory in close proximity to the World Cup from an advertising perspective.

At the very least my guess would be late 1958 or early 1959 - though I am still trying to track down the album (of which many did not have dates, anyway).

Yeah, I saw that. Too much for me, but would love to add one at some point