What’s the obsession with Mickey Mantle?

[Lordstan]

Plus there is this letter.
Warning : Defintely not suitable for work.

https://www.somethingawful.com/news/micks-lost-letters/

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[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Plus there is this letter.
Warning : Defintely not suitable for work.

https://www.somethingawful.com/news/micks-lost-letters/

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Haha are these real?

EDIT: This can't be real, but great spoof.

[Exhibitman]

The comparison with Ryan is one I hadn't considered but is very useful for collectors of my generation (X) to consider the question through. I am a huge Ryan fan. I recognize that there were better pitchers in his generation. Doesn't matter. Statistics do not define the appeal of Nolan Ryan. It was just so exciting every time he went to the mound. Seaver or Carlton was a better pitcher but there wasn't the potential for a 10+ K no-no whenever he went up there. With Ryan, you never knew, other than you were going to see an explosive fastball and a wicked curve and the hitters were going to catch him or not. He was a gunslinger as a starter. What appealed to me is that from 72-79 he led the league in K's seven times but also walked the most batters six times and is #1 all time in fewest hits per 9 innings. He has the most Ks and the most BBs and the most no-hitters in history. It was crazy fun whenever he went out there: if a player got on it was rare for the next guy to do much with it. I suspect Mantle was the same way: he might not have been the best in the game (though for a couple of seasons, I think he was), but there was always the possibility that he busts one out of the stadium.

It's charisma: you can't fake it. Mantle had it. Mays not.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It's charisma: you can't fake it. Mantle had it. Mays not.

I don't think that's fair. I think over time Mays became more reticent and later in life was by most accounts often sullen, but as a young man from what I can tell he had lots of charisma and played the game with an unrivaled joie de vivre.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The comparison with Ryan is one I hadn't considered but is very useful for collectors of my generation (X) to consider the question through. I am a huge Ryan fan. I recognize that there were better pitchers in his generation. Doesn't matter. Statistics do not define the appeal of Nolan Ryan. It was just so exciting every time he went to the mound. Seaver or Carlton was a better pitcher but there wasn't the potential for a 10+ K no-no whenever he went up there. With Ryan, you never knew, other than you were going to see an explosive fastball and a wicked curve and the hitters were going to catch him or not. He was a gunslinger as a starter. What appealed to me is that from 72-79 he led the league in K's seven times but also walked the most batters six times and is #1 all time in fewest hits per 9 innings. He has the most Ks and the most BBs and the most no-hitters in history. It was crazy fun whenever he went out there: if a player got on it was rare for the next guy to do much with it. I suspect Mantle was the same way: he might not have been the best in the game (though for a couple of seasons, I think he was), but there was always the possibility that he busts one out of the stadium.

It's charisma: you can't fake it. Mantle had it. Mays not.

Agreed on the Ryan comparison. Ryan was the closest thing my generation had (I'm also X but late X...) to Mantle. I'm 41 and started collecting in 1986. My first person in the hobby like that was, well...Mantle - because he was still alive, doing shows, and routinely graced the "hot" list in each month's Beckett when it came in the mail. When I was about 10 or 11 years old, the kid down the street traded me an absoulety destroyed, water-damaged '65 Topps Mantle #350. I was on cloud 9 for weeks - figuring I had just landed something that should be on display in Cooperstown. After Nolan went to the Rangers in '89 and the handwriting on the wall for all the marks he stood to break became apparent, he was solid gold. There was no more popular player in the sport of baseball - and even after he retired in the hobby - for the next 5-7 years probably.

I never thought of it this way, but yes - there are some players, a select few per generation - that can transcend like that. Mantle and Nolan are probably the two most notable in the card hobby today - that would be my argument at least.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Haha are these real?

EDIT: This can't be real, but great spoof.

It’s real. It’s his handwriting, and the rest of the historical details line up...


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[Jobu]

The Mickey Mantle obsession I understand. Derek Jeter I do not.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Jobu

The Mickey Mantle obsession I understand. Derek Jeter I do not.

I don't understand the Mickey Mantle obsession, probably because he retired about the same time I was born. So I never got to see him play or be part of the excitement of all the WS rings.

Now Derek Jeter I completely understand. At first I hated on him but after watching him play for many years I learned to highly respect his game. Just name 1 person who tried harder every day on the field than he did.

[Rich Falvo]

I don't think it's an either/or debate. I do understand the appeal of Mantle. But I am also sometimes surprised at the prices of some of his cards, especially his common 60's Topps base cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jeter is easy to understand. New York Yankees is about 50 percent and the other half is that in an era of drugs, prima donnas, and a$$holes, he was the clean-cut, squeaky clean, respectful, modest All American young man. And having a foil in ARod just highlighted those qualities all the more, particularly when he did well in post-season and for a while ARod underperformed.

[Directly]

The year was 1964, the first year I began to collect baseball cards. Being a paper boy after receiving my large salary of $3.00 I would race to the local drug store to spend all my hard earned money --loved the Gum, and the little metal coins storing them for safe keeping inside a brown grocery bag. Around this time upon visiting my older cousin I advised my passion--Donnie advised he had a bag full and trotted up into the attic to retrieve those hundred or so little pieces of cardboard gold--upon opening the sack he began to sort them--when he came upon a double he would hand it to me, saying you can have it---WOW--never before had I seen those type of baseball cards, turned out they were all mint 1957 Topps. After completing his task at hand, I mentioned, you have two Mantles--can I have one, you have two? NO he
replied in a rather stern youthful voice--No way that's Mickey Mantle---

So the first Mantle I pulled was the the same year, 1964 so to protect my rare find, with a nickel I purchase a holder from a vending machine and laminated my prize!!

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

It’s real. It’s his handwriting, and the rest of the historical details line up...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, I actually looked at the link that was posted. The '73 letter (the BJ story) I have always understood to be real. The other things up there are in different handwriting (but with the same signature) and those look to me to be fakes.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by lordstan

plus there is this letter.
Warning : Defintely not suitable for work.

https://www.somethingawful.com/news/micks-lost-letters/

sent from my sm-g955u using tapatalk

rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reads like the old Penthouse letters. "I'm a sophomore at a Midwestern college...."

Doubt they are real.

[irv]

A pretty good synopsis of the 1953 WS here. Billy Martin, imo, stole the show batting .500 in this series.
So many stars and HOF's on both teams. Makes me wish I was around then to witness it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0u_6yjqjG0

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by irv

A pretty good synopsis of the 1953 WS here. Billy Martin, imo, stole the show batting .500 in this series.
So many stars and HOF's on both teams. Makes me wish I was around then to witness it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0u_6yjqjG0

Thanks for posting the link to the highlights of the 1953 World Series. It brought back to me some very fond memories. I was in Junior H.S. that season surrounded by Dodger fans.

I was the only Yankees fan in the class. These guys were betting me that the Dodgers were finally going to beat the Yankees (after having lost to the Yankees in four previous W.S.).

Little did they figure that Billy Martin would spoil their hopes. Billy batted only .257 (his career BA) in the 1953 season. However, the rest of his numbers that season were his career
highs......151 Hits, 15 HRs, 75 RBIs, and 72 Runs. Was this an "ominous" omen to the the Dodgers ?
I would think so.

Well, after this 6-game W.S. ended, you could with all certainty say that Billy single-handedly beat the Dodgers.

Billy's 1953 World Series stats (6 games)…...
BA = .500
Hits = 12
HRs = 2
RBI = 8
SLG = .958

In 1982, I met Billy and told him this story....he just loved it, and then said...." the 1953 World Series was indeed the highlight of his playing career ".








TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Lordstan]

Mantle's popularity is really not that difficult to understand.
1) Played in New York.
2) When He played in NY, the team went through an amazing run of success. Because of this he got national exposure doing heroic things on the biggest stage.
3) Good Looking
4) He was on the team that STAYED in NY after the Giants and Dodgers both abandoned the town.
5) Because the others left, there was no one in NY to share the spotlight with until 1969, when the Mets won the WS and he retired.
6) He was generally thought of as a good guy who liked to have fun. (Much like Bill Clinton. A party boy who women loved and men wanted to be). The Charisma factor.
7) He was pleasant with the media and fans unlike Mays, Williams and Dimaggio.
8) He was on the show circuit for almost 20yrs prior to passing away. During that time, he was great with fans. Don't underestimate the impact this had. People have truckloads of stories of Mays, Dimaggio and Williams acting surly and sometimes downright rude to fans lining up to pay them to sign their name. Certainly this soured many of those who saw those two as heroes. Mantle was 100% the opposite. He could be fall down drunk and would give you a perfect signature, smile at you, and shake your hand.
9) He was a classic hero story. Someone of immense talent who suffered yet still overcame. Now some of the suffering was his own doing, but almost everyone who saw him play before the knee injury felt he could have been even better. Who doesn't love the aw shucks guy who is given a bad break but still finds a way to succeed? Sounds like about a bazillion movies I have seen.

PS: Despite the Mantle could have been better if he didn't hurt his knee argument, there is no doubt in my mind that Mays was a better ballplayer. The reason I say this is that Mays had the handicap of playing in San Fransisco for all those years. He probably lost 5 hr a year to the stupid wind of Candlestick. If you add 5hr x 10yrs(1958-1968) brings him from 660 to 710hr. Who knows, maybe playing in Polo grounds and it's short LF porch gets him 10 more per year. Maybe he challenges the Babe and gets the accolades for breaking that record. Now you add in all the other numbers and it makes it an even stronger case.
Mays is not, and will never be, as popular in part because of being black at that time in our history, but also because he played in SF, and not NY, before the internet and other media would level the playing field. Additionally, there is almost no one who doesn't think he is a nasty human being. He was not particularly fan friendly when he played and in the 1980's on the show circuit he did noting to change that perception. Hard to be someone's hero if they think you're a prick.

[pokerplyr80]

Not much to say that hasn't been said, but titles and post season play make a legend. Being the face of the Yankees for a decade or two doesn't hurt either.

To draw a modern parallel few would argue Jeter was a better player than Griffey. But he's more popular among collectors for many of the same reasons Mantle is favored over Mays. And he never won a triple crown or was thought of as the best player in the league.

I don't think race has much to do with either case now, but I'm sure it was a factor in the 50s and 60s.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

8) He was on the show circuit for almost 20yrs prior to passing away. During that time, he was great with fans. Don't underestimate the impact this had. People have truckloads of stories of Mays, Dimaggio and Williams acting surly and sometimes downright rude to fans lining up to pay them to sign their name. Certainly this soured many of those who saw those two as heroes. Mantle was 100% the opposite. He could be fall down drunk and would give you a perfect signature, smile at you, and shake your hand.


PS: Despite the Mantle could have been better if he didn't hurt his knee argument, there is no doubt in my mind that Mays was a better ballplayer. The reason I say this is that Mays had the handicap of playing in San Fransisco for all those years. He probably lost 5 hr a year to the stupid wind of Candlestick. If you add 5hr x 10yrs(1958-1968) brings him from 660 to 710hr. Who knows, maybe playing in Polo grounds and it's short LF porch gets him 10 more per year. Maybe he challenges the Babe and gets the accolades for breaking that record. Now you add in all the other numbers and it makes it an even stronger case.
Mays is not, and will never be, as popular in part because of being black at that time in our history, but also because he played in SF, and not NY, before the internet and other media would level the playing field. Additionally, there is almost no one who doesn't think he is a nasty human being. He was not particularly fan friendly when he played and in the 1980's on the show circuit he did noting to change that perception. Hard to be someone's hero if they think you're a prick.

I am not sure where you got #8. I got autographs from Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams several times and every time they were as nice as can be. Mickey Mantle was not. He was as bad as Mays. I don't see how you can say those things about Mays and not apply them to Mantle. When it came to family, Mantle was even worse.

[irv]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanks for posting the link to the highlights of the 1953 World Series. It brought back to me some very fond memories. I was in Junior H.S. that season surrounded by Dodger fans.

I was the only Yankees fan in the class. These guys were betting me that the Dodgers were finally going to beat the Yankees (after having lost to the Yankees in four previous W.S.).

Little did they figure that Billy Martin would spoil their hopes. Billy batted only .257 (his career BA) in the 1953 season. However, the rest of his numbers that season were his career
highs......151 Hits, 15 HRs, 75 RBIs, and 72 Runs. Was this an "ominous" omen to the the Dodgers ?
I would think so.

Well, after this 6-game W.S. ended, you could with all certainty say that Billy single-handedly beat the Dodgers.

Billy's 1953 World Series stats (6 games)…...
BA = .500
Hits = 12
HRs = 2
RBI = 8
SLG = .958

In 1982, I met Billy and told him this story....he just loved it, and then said...." the 1953 World Series was indeed the highlight of his playing career ".








TED Z

T206 Reference
.

You're welcome, Ted.

Thanks for providing more info about the series and Billy Martin as well. Great childhood story!

I currently don't have a 52 Topps Billy Martin card in my collection but after reading this story and watching the vid, I am more eager now than ever to obtain one.