Lee Smith & Harold Baines??

[RedsFan1941]

you really don't think "hall of fame" implies "great"?

[iwantitiwinit]

Someone that averages .289, 22hr, 93 rbi's as a right fielder/dh and played in a single world series is not a hall of famer in my opinion.

[Tony2311]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Someone that averages .289, 22hr, 93 rbi's as a right fielder/dh and played in a single world series is not a hall of famer in my opinion.

+1 Tony

[Peter_Spaeth]

Just to be perverse, Yaz was 22-90-.285

[packs]

Compare that to Albert Belle:

40-130-295

Not a HOFer though, apparently.

[MK]

If Baines is HOF material, then next year they need to add another 300 or so new members as the bar has been lowered substantially. In fact, why not just put everyone in who has played at least one year in the bigs. That way we don’t overlook anyone. It’s so watered down anyway it’s lost all of its prestige.

[Jason19th]

Lee Smith is long over due- he was in the generation that redefined the position and he ended his careers with the all time lead in the main thing that he did - name another star where the all time leader had to wait years for induction. Furthermore for as much as everyone wants to denigrate the save, there is a reason that most pitchers may have a good year or two but burn out hundreds of saves short of 478- it hard and the leash is short

Harold Baines should go down as one of the worst- Chick Hafey bad- if he’s in then Andres Galarage and Edgar Martinez have to fly in, then we have to make room for all of the guys who would have been able to play until they are 40 because of the dh -

Joe Adcock
Gil Hodges
Buzz Arlett
Ted Kluziski (sp)
Roy Seivers
Greg luzinski (sp)
Vic Wetz
Mickey Vernon
Hank Sauer
Hank Bauer
Dolf Camilli
Al Rosen
Gavy Cravath
Wally Moses
About 100 guys that I can’t think of right now

[KCRfan1]

The REAL travesty is George Steinbrenner receiving 4 votes or less. If anyone of the eligible were to be elected, it should have been Steinbrenner. That man was a HoF'r all the way.

[David W]

The 1981 and 1994 strike years cost Baines 3000 hits or he’d already be in.

I still don’t think he stands out as an all time great though

[Peter_Spaeth]

Fred McGriff surely has a more impressive resume than Baines, no? Larry Walker? Dwight Evans? Dave Parker?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I feel like abandoning my post war HOF collection now. I can't believe I now have to buy RCs of these two. LOL.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hall of Fame Statistics





Black Ink
Batting - 3 (560), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink
Batting - 40 (655), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 66 (311), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 44 (121), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS
Right Field (74th):
38.7 career WAR / 21.4 7yr-peak WAR / 30.1 JAWS
Average HOF RF (out of 25):
72.7 career WAR / 42.9 7yr-peak WAR / 57.8 JAWS

[rats60]

This has got to be good news for Omar Vizquel who is now the only guy with 2800 hits (other than steroid users) not in the HOF.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I feel like abandoning my post war HOF collection now. I can't believe I now have to buy RCs of these two. LOL.

Me too, Peter

This is who we can blame:

The 16-member Hall of Fame Board-appointed electorate charged with the review of the Today’s Game Era features Hall of Fame members Roberto Alomar, Bert Blyleven, Pat Gillick, Tony La Russa, Greg Maddux, Joe Morgan, John Schuerholz, Ozzie Smith and Joe Torre; major league executives Al Avila (Tigers), Paul Beeston (Blue Jays), Andy MacPhail (Phillies) and Jerry Reinsdorf (White Sox); and veteran media members/historians Steve Hirdt, Tim Kurkjian and Claire Smith.

=

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Me too, Peter

This is who we can blame:

The 16-member Hall of Fame Board-appointed electorate charged with the review of the Today’s Game Era features Hall of Fame members Roberto Alomar, Bert Blyleven, Pat Gillick, Tony La Russa, Greg Maddux, Joe Morgan, John Schuerholz, Ozzie Smith and Joe Torre; major league executives Al Avila (Tigers), Paul Beeston (Blue Jays), Andy MacPhail (Phillies) and Jerry Reinsdorf (White Sox); and veteran media members/historians Steve Hirdt, Tim Kurkjian and Claire Smith.

=

Too many ballplayers on that committee, cronyism. Like when all those above average 1930s infielders got in. If I were Dick Allen I would be disgusted.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I feel like abandoning my post war HOF collection now. I can't believe I now have to buy RCs of these two. LOL.

That's funny!

[AGuinness]

The Baseball Hall of Fame voting, in exactly the same manner as post-season awards, is basically a scam. In both cases, most of the voters are sports writers (and in the case of Baines and Smith, I know it is different, but it is reflecting the overall process), and these writers spill more ink writing stories on predicting who will win awards or make the hall than actual news coverage of the sport. If it weren't for "Mid Season Awards" and "New Retiree's Chances of the HOF" stories, media outlets could slash their sports staffs by more than half. When the people who get to determine the outcome are also the ones declaring how important the outcomes are, it's a huge red flag to me that those outcomes are mostly meaningless.
That said, I also never enjoy the bashing of players who make it or are up for election, but that's always how it goes. I'd rather have more guys get in so we can keep celebrating the history of the game, different players and different eras and so forth. Celebrate, not denigrate.

[kailes2872]

I also never enjoy the bashing of players who make it or are up for election, but that's always how it goes. I'd rather have more guys get in so we can keep celebrating the history of the game, different players and different eras and so forth. Celebrate, not denigrate.

I hear you and I felt bad after the opening post - especially when Glyn voiced his irritation. My first thought when I heard it was “wasn’t he traded for Steve Kemp?” And then I remembered it was Chet Lemon. I don’t begrudge him and his appearance and autograph fees probably just tripled. I just think about when I started collecting/watching around 78-79 and I think about 78-84 and the cards with the all-star logo - Dave Parker, Steve Garvey, Jim Rice Fred Lynn, etc - I never put Harold in their class and except for Rice after a long wait, those guys can’t get in. So that is my point of reference- right or wrong. But I mean no disrespect

[insidethewrapper]

Got to get these 2 guys ( Baines and Smith) out of my Commons bin and send the Rookie Cards in for grading.

[familytoad]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I feel like abandoning my post war HOF collection now. I can't believe I now have to buy RCs of these two. LOL.

These HOFERS will add about $8.00 to my collection too.
Breaking the bank for HOF RC is a thing of the past!

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

The REAL travesty is George Steinbrenner receiving 4 votes or less. If anyone of the eligible were to be elected, it should have been Steinbrenner. That man was a HoF'r all the way.

Not sure if this is a joke or not (sorry) but Steinbrenner was once suspended for two years, was once banned permanently before being reinstated and he was one of the owners during the steroid era, who obviously knew what was going on, had no problem getting rich off of it (and also rewarding its use), but threw players under the bus completely when MLB got busted.

He has no business even being on the ballot with that resume. If a player got a two-year suspension, banned and was part of the steroid era, they wouldn't get a vote. He's like a much worse version of Manny Ramirez (meaning steroids/suspensions), who will never get in.

[Chris-Counts]

There's no way Harold Baines was better than Minnie Minoso. They played in the same ballpark for most of their careers, and not only was Minnie's OPS was 28 points higher, but he won Gold Glove awards during three of the first four seasons they gave them out. Meanwhile, Baines didn't even play in the field.

[kmac32]

About time Big Lee got in. Great player, better person, and funny as all get out. He is a personal friend of mine and I know his family. Had him as my coach 4 out of 5 years that I went to Cubs camp.

[oldjudge]

Here is the argument for Baines: Upon his retirement, Baines ranked seventh in American League history in games played (2,830) and tenth in runs batted in (1,628). Noted as well for his power hitting in clutch situations, he is tied for seventh in AL history in grand slams (13), fourth in three home run games (3), and tied for seventh in major league history in walk-off home runs (10). Baines batted over .300 eight times and hit .324 in 31 career postseason games, topping the .350 mark in five separate series.

That said, I don’t like the selection

[JollyElm]

Guess I gotta move my signed TTM 1981 Fleer Baines card to my autographed HOF rookies section now.

Most if not all of us here watched him play his entire career...did anyone ever consider him a Hall of Fame caliber player?? Wow.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Guess I gotta move my signed TTM 1981 Fleer Baines card to my autographed HOF rookies section now.

Most if not all of us here watched him play his entire career...did anyone ever consider him a Hall of Fame caliber player?? Wow.

Only when he looked like he had a shot at 3000, and only for that reason. Smith at least got some reasonably strong consideration for many years from the writers, so while it's debatable it's not an OMG moment.

[Shoeless Moe]

I'm from Chicago. A Cubs fan. Saw Lee Smith pitch.

HE BLOWS!!!!! BLEW, whatever.

Worst pitcher to ever get in.

Joke.