Not the only Hall of Fame getting Watered Down

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by tschock

Wha? No Purple (Deep)? I really need to watch my speedometer when listening to Lazy or Highway Star live.

Ok, fair point. Purple is in!

[Rickyy]

Roxy Music should have been in the HOF years ago... influenced the new romantic movement in music, took Rock music to new heights and directions.

Ricky Y

[Shoeless Moe]

...but what cap does Dio wear, Rainbow, Sabbath or his very own Dio?



and I think you might have a few objectors leaving out of the first class Zeppelin, AC/DC, Van Halen, Megadeth, & Motorhead!


It would be tough picking an initial 5, but I'd go:

Zeppelin
AC/DC
Metallica
Van Halen
Black Sabbath/Ozzy

in no particular order.


The next class:

Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Motorhead
Slayer
Guns n Roses




dammit.....forgot Aerosmith

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

...but what cap does Dio wear, Rainbow, Sabbath or his very own Dio?

Early work with Ozzy is where Sabbath is deserving of Hall enshrinement, by the time Ronnie James got involved.....nope! I don't see him in there with Rainbow or on his own either.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

and I think you might have a few objectors leaving out of the first class Zeppelin, AC/DC, Van Halen, Megadeth, & Motorhead!

Before you go putting Motorhead into an inaugural class, they didn't originally write and perform their own self-titled/named song. The group that did should be under consideration for enshrinement before them (and many other named bands/performers) in my opinion.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by BobC

Before you go putting Motorhead into an inaugural class, they didn't originally write and perform their own self-titled/named song. The group that did should be under consideration for enshrinement before them (and many other named bands/performers) in my opinion.

You would never have said this to Lemmy if he were still alive.



And I'm fine with Dio waiting to get in, as far as I'm concerned He's The Last In Line!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

You would never have said this to Lemmy if he were still alive.

Sure I would have. Lemmy actually originally played for this other group I'm referring to, and wrote and performed "Motorhead" while he was with them. I believe even he agreed that it was while he with this original group that he really developed and learned how to play and perform to became the musician and performer he ended up being once he formed Motorhead the group. If I remember correctly, he ended up getting caught/arrested going from the U.S. into Canada for drugs, and because of that along with a lot of other erratic behavior he exhibited at the time, this original group ended up just replacing him. Kind of/sort of like what happened between Ozzy and Sabbath to some extent I guess.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by BobC

Sure I would have. Lemmy actually originally played for this other group I'm referring to, and wrote and performed "Motorhead" while he was with them. I believe even he agreed that it was while he with this original group that he really developed and learned how to play and perform to became the musician and performer he ended up being once he formed Motorhead the group. If I remember correctly, he ended up getting caught/arrested going from the U.S. into Canada for drugs, and because of that along with a lot of other erratic behavior he exhibited at the time, this original group ended up just replacing him. Kind of/sort of like what happened between Ozzy and Sabbath to some extent I guess.

It is okay to say Hawkwind though considering some of their songs they were not solidly heavy metal. Consider 'Quark, Strangeness and Charm' and 'Spirit of the Age'. Both from the 'Quark...' album. The title song is new wave/Brit pop and 'Spirit' is more electronica. I would consider much of their earlier music psychedelic/electronic.

[drcy]

I'm not just The Cure.

For 'hard' bands, I'd nominate Celtic Frost and Discharge. The best ever metal band and the best punk. Seminal, influential, but probably too real and extreme to ever be considered.

Discharge's Hear Nothing See Nothing Say Nothing (1982) is the greatest extreme music and punk album ever made. In a class of its own. It is one of the most influential albums, whether or not you heard of the band or album and is as fresh and extreme today as it was 36 years ago. "A punk rock landmark if ever there was one, Discharge's Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing is one of the most bleak, angry albums to ever grace the underground."-- allmusic

Other deserving punk bands are Black Flag and Dead Kennedys, but I'm sure they laugh at a music HOF.

Duly note that I think the HOF is silly, and do want to see those bands in it.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Michael B

It is okay to say Hawkwind though considering some of their songs they were not solidly heavy metal. Consider 'Quark, Strangeness and Charm' and 'Spirit of the Age'. Both from the 'Quark...' album. The title song is new wave/Brit pop and 'Spirit' is more electronica. I would consider much of their earlier music psychedelic/electronic.

Don't disagree, their musical area was more aligned with the psychedelic/electronic format in their early years, of which they were pioneers in that type of genre. I was referring more to regular Rock HOF election than just pure hard/heavy metal hall induction, However, they were known for their live stage shows and presentations, especially in their early years, which was an influence on others to come. Their alignment with other artists and performers with different backgrounds is also well known and they often used various performers and artists coming and going in their shows and tours on a regular basis. For the hard rock side, having Lemmy as your bassist doesn't hurt either, and though they employed a lot of electronics and steered towards a more science fiction/fantasy type them in a lot of their music, based on a lot of what we have today, they could be viewed as being way ahead of their time.

They incorporated a lot of spoken word pieces in their performances, which was a bit unique for the time, and included the use of dancers and other performers on stage that became a well known part of the band and performance itself. They had an Irish performance artist, Stacia, who was built like an Amazon and would perform and dance during their live shows, often just in body paint and either topless or naked otherwise. Again, something kind of unique and possibly the first time being used in rock performances.

Their live shows were legendary and the lighting and such was so well done and orchestrated that the crew handling that work become almost as well known as the band itself in many areas. Can you name any other rock band where the crew were actually known by name, in this case "Liquid Len and the Lensmen"? Also, they were in their early years very much aligned with a popular Sci-fi/Fantasy writer of the time, Michael Moorcock. (Okay guys, be adult regarding the author's last name.) In fact, he actually wrote a full length sci-fi novel that featured the band and its current members at that time as the main characters and protaganists of the book. Who would have thought that a rock bands specific style and form of music would be the only power able to stop certain evil powers set to take over the Earth!?!?!? Can you name me any other rock bands that have had that done? I know the Beatles had their early movies, and later on MTV brought out the videos, but any actual novels written about any performers not as a documentary/biographical type works?

There may be by now, 40+ years later, but certainly not before Hawkwind as this is going back to the 70's. Also, they were more well known as a British group, another reason they aren't mainstream and popular here in the U.S. And they were not really that concerned with being big stars and making lots of money. They were well known for performing in free festivals and virtually anywhere someone would let them play. They were also very fluid in the members and genres they incorporated over the years, which is also another reason they probably don't get the due they deserve from their early years. There is virtually one person, Dave Brock, who has been the sole constant member and driving force behind the group till today. What with the ever-changing lineups and infinite re-mixes of songs and styles over the years, the musical course of the group has constantly changed over the decades. Which is another element that doesn't necessarily endear the group to the multitude of average rock fans who like to see the same group, same members, same songs, done the same way, etc., over the years. If you were to see them perform in recent years, they couldn't/wouldn't sound or necessarily perform anywhere near like what they did 40+ years earlier. Meanwhile, if someone goes to see Sir Paul McCartney perform today and he includes "Hey Jude" in the show, I'll bet my last dollar it is going to sound pretty much like it did when the Beatles released it back in the 60s. So those folks today get to hear the near same exact song people first heard in the 60s, which helps to continue the legend, the memories, and so on, and bring new fans to McCartneys camp that weren't alive to have heard the Beatles when they first hit the scene. That is another element that deals with the elevating of some person/group to HOF status in my opinion. So with a group like Hawkwind, if you weren't really into them back then, they didn't do a lot of commercially successful pop type hits for the time that would still resonate with people today, you can't go see a retro tour where they re-do their hits note for note, and you can't attend an epic live performance of their shows with the lights and visual performers they originally had, and thus there isn't really a lot besides their old recordings that people now can listen to get to know and appreciate them. At the time they first were out though, they were definitely innovative and influential in what and how they performed. Considered often as early pioneers in the electronic/psychedelic music genre, and even the early proto-punk movement, with elements of speed and heavy metal here and there as well. They were unique, and I feel deserving of HOF status for their musical contributions, style and influences, not just because of how many records they sold, as that never really seemed to be their main focus. The group was more the true artist type, caring more about the music than being commercially successful. That, in and of itself, has always got me to appreciate them more than many other groups deemed rock hall worthy. For example, KISS. I'll give KISS credit for appearing in their outfits and their theatrics onstage as rather new and innovative at the time, but their actual music was also kind of bland and simply basic standard rock, just something to be commercially successful and sell records. To me, they are the epitome of the sell out performer only interested in self-promotion and selling records (ie: making money). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting to make money, but lets face it, Kiss, especially Gene Simmons, is almost totally about making the money. The music really isn't that great, the stage show just helped to get them there. And Kiss started not too long after Hawkwind so they operated around the same time frame. If Hawkwind had put more emphasis on just generating basic pop/rock anthems simply to sell records to the common masses like KISS, and included someone who was the ultimate narcissistic person and self-promoter like Gene Simmons to constantly remind people how great they were, a lot more people would know about Hawkwind than they do now and could more likely be considered as big and deserving of HOF status as KISS. But the fact they didn't, and stayed true to the music and their art form over just seeking commercial success is exactly what I think separates and elevates them above others, like KISS!

As a great example, one of the inaugural Rock HOF inductees was Robert Johnson. I'm pretty sure he didn't sell a whole lot of records during his life, at least not like artists of today. Never really made much money or became famous when he lived, but is definitely deserving. I'm not saying Hawkwind is on his level of contribution to rock music, but they sure added a lot more to it than KISS ever did!