Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[RichardSimon]

Are other collectible hobbies plagued by such fraudulent behavior as this one is?
I am sure there is fraud in other hobbies but is it this widespread?
My other hobbies do not involve collecting anything, fortunately, except my airline boarding passes.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Are other collectible hobbies plagued by such fraudulent behavior as this one is?

Real/fake art has it's own Netflix docu-series...

https://www.netflix.com/title/81032626

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Are other collectible hobbies plagued by such fraudulent behavior as this one is?
I am sure there is fraud in other hobbies but is it this widespread?
My other hobbies do not involve collecting anything, fortunately, except my airline boarding passes.

This is all probably chump change compared to art, antiques, stamps, coins, etc.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is all probably chump change compared to art, antiques, stamps, coins, etc.

It depends. One of the more prolific stamp fakers recently did volume, but mostly didn't get much for his stuff. I bought one, and it was a 60 cent stamp altered to make a maybe 600 dollar stamp that I "won" for about ten bucks.

Famous forgers work in some cases is itself collectible, and sometimes sells for more than the original (I don't own a Sperati or Fournier, that I know of but will eventually. )


The authentication process is probably more involved for the really expensive stuff and isn't generally done on a time schedule. I believe it's the same for art and antiques, but the money in some art is amazing. Coins I'm not so sure about, but there is a lot of well done fakery these days.

[packs]

Art has always been faked. Every year people go to museums and look at fraudulent artwork. According to this 2010 article, it's estimated that 20 % of all artwork in major British museums are fraudulent pieces.

I'm sure an expert looked at these paintings too. You can't ask for infallibility from a human being.

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Are other collectible hobbies plagued by such fraudulent behavior as this one is?

There is a lot of fraud in the classic car/muscle car market.
James

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Are other collectible hobbies plagued by such fraudulent behavior as this one is?

If money is involved, the answer is yes. And the more money, the more fraud.

[RichardSimon]

I was aware of the art, it always gets press coverage.
But do stamps and coins have as much fraud as this hobby?
Do less popular collectibles have a lot of fraud?

[bgar3]

The rare book market went thru a forgery scandal in the 1930’s when some incredible research, much like this research, discovered that a number of pamphlets thought to be first editions, were published at a later date. The forger was identified as one of the world’s greatest collectors and bibliographer, who himself authenticated the forgeries. The story is fascinating and research continues to this day. The book that first described the forgeries is An Equiry into certain Nineteenth Century Pamphlets, by John Carter and Graham Pollard.
If anyone is interested I could supply other titles. The forger was Thomas Wise.
There have been other interesting more recent examples like the Mormon and Texas history forgeries, in which a number of people were killed.

[Shoeless Moe]

I'm confused (which doesn't take much)

If this happened in early 2017:

http://www.wfmj.com/story/35123889/y...raud-to-prison

Who's doing it now? his grandma?

[SetBuilder]

The Vinland Map has recently been proven to be a fake and the evidence continues to mount.

Yet it is still displayed at the Yale Beinecke Library in a nice shiny display case. Go figure.

[Jasonxmay]

The article names 2 other residents of Girard, one of whom got probation and the other of whom had yet to be sentenced at the time the article was written. I’d also point out that 6 years prison does not mean 6 years prison. If Ohio is anything like Oklahoma 6 years prison could mean a few months incarceration followed by supervised probation, possibly with an ankle monitor. This activity obviously seems very serious to us in the hobby, but for prosecutors and law enforcement this is very low level stuff. In fact, I would guess that even a second offense would result in minimal punishment. If I were representing the guilty party I’d feel like anything more serious than a deferred sentence would mean I didn’t do my job very well. It will be interesting to see how things unfold, but my expectations are low.

Jason

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

I'm confused (which doesn't take much)

If this happened in early 2017:

http://www.wfmj.com/story/35123889/y...raud-to-prison

Who's doing it now? his grandma?

[Eggoman]

Someone MUCH MORE knowledgeable about US Coins than I am could better tell the story of a forger who was making rare date $20 St. Gaudens Gold Coins from common ones...

His work was so good that he was never caught, I believe, despite the fact that he left his mark on many of the coins that he worked on.

His "work" is even collectible today because of his "talent".

I'm sure that I'm forgetting some of the details...

[steve B]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I was aware of the art, it always gets press coverage.
But do stamps and coins have as much fraud as this hobby?
Do less popular collectibles have a lot of fraud?

I suppose it depends on what you think of as both "as much" and fraud.


Stamps has plenty of low level stuff going on. altering something to appear to be something it's not is pretty easy. And doing stuff to make less saleable items saleable is even easier. And that's been going on almost as long as there's been a hobby. Sometimes it was done years ago, and that can get amusing at times.


The main area I collect is the 1873 and 1879 officials. in 1875 the POD decided to print reprints of every us stamp ever issued as part of the upcoming centennial celebrations. To prevent illegal use, they overprinted the officials with "specimen" Some were really common, some sold less than 100 copies. And for years collectors didn't think much of those overprinted stamps. The common ones often have the "Specimen" erased and a fake cancel added sometimes it's well done, sometimes they just crossed the overprint out with a pen. On ones like the 1cent executive dept its an effort to turn a stamp that might sell for $15 into one that might bring 2-400. On others it gets sort of comical... I have one of the really uncommon ones that was done to. 72 copies sold, catalog value 1200. I got it for $20 as a common used copy of the basic stamp. It's not worth 1200, but certainly more than 20 and whoever altered it in the past sort of did me a favor as I probably wouldn't own one otherwise.


Cancellations and other postal markings are faked pretty often, stamps are added to covers to represent rare uses, etc. Most aren't truly expensive, and that's because the authenticating groups take their time making a decision. And ALL the really expesnive stuff gets scrutinized very closely. Even stuff that's known to be "good" .

A few articles

http://www.rfrajola.com/opinions/klep.htm

http://www.rfrajola.com/opinions/gslc.htm


This one is a summary of a controversial group of stamps. The most recent expertizing took 5 Years and resulted in a book full of details that even most stamp collectors couldn't love.

http://www.rfrajola.com/grinnells/grinnells.htm

[SetBuilder]

Stanley Gibbons (the people behind the British version on the Scott stamp catalog) purchased the printing plates for several early Argentina stamps (the 1862-65 issues I believe) and ran off a bunch of forgeries that continue to confuse stamp collectors to this day.

That's about as scandalous as Jefferson Burdick printing thousands of card fakes and still being held in high regard.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Stanley Gibbons (the people behind the British version on the Scott stamp catalog) purchased the printing plates for several early Argentina stamps (the 1862-65 issues I believe) and ran off a bunch of forgeries that continue to confuse stamp collectors to this day.

That's about as scandalous as Jefferson Burdick printing thousands of card fakes and still being held in high regard.

Stanley Gibbons is their own company.


And when they were newish both Scotts and Gibbons did some iffy things, some more iffy than others. Many of the early dealers who sold in large volume did.

One of the salesmen (Or other official) for one of the banknote companies was regularly an early visitor to any new government in South America. Want instant legitimacy? You NEED stamps! Thousands of them, in as many different denominations as you can afford. Nevermind that the ousted government left behind a few hundred thousand I sold them 2 years ago, you need your own stamps as soon as possible!


Then his friends would buy the remainders at a few cents on the Dollar. And sometimes he doubled the order and kept half. The purchased stamps were sold to a few very large dealers in Europe who made packets for sale to new collectors. Quite a racket.

[xplainer]

This thread is saddening, yet very informative.
Proof is in the pictures.
Why I love Net54.

[BruceinGa]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

But do stamps and coins have as much fraud as this hobby?

I remember as a kid in the early 60's hearing about tampered 1944 D Lincoln cent being altered to appear as a 1914 D. There were others but my memory, well, you know.

[itslarry]

Killing stamp market from what people are forums seem to be. Saying. Or killed it I should say.
Anywhere there is money and the chance for people to cheat, sadly.

[ALBB]

Records too

I got burned with some early " rare " Beatle records, also another famous fake is the John Lennon Roots LP

[irv]

Any new updates on this? Did PSA, SGC or JSA (James Spence authentication) have anything to say about this yet or has all been hush hush?

Another thread was started discussing the impact this will have on the Auto side of collecting. Have people noticed this and seen a big drop in prices or people collecting them?

Was/were the perp(s) ever caught and charged or is this investigation still ongoing?

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Are other collectible hobbies plagued by such fraudulent behavior as this one is?
I am sure there is fraud in other hobbies but is it this widespread?
My other hobbies do not involve collecting anything, fortunately, except my airline boarding passes.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sour_grapes_2016

Amazing documentary on how the wine hobby was duped. Watch it!