Christmas Day Trivia

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Of course? Larry Walker didn't make it, I think it's far from certain for Helton.

Walker should have made it, and Helton's stats are even better. And need I say both are equal or superior to Harold Baines.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Walker should have made it, and Helton's stats are even better. And need I say both are equal or superior to Harold Baines.

Coors Field factor. Major issue for both IMO. Helton also did little after age 30. 5 AS teams, highest MVP vote 5th. Meh. I think this year we'll see Rivera, Halladay and probably Edgar.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Coors Field factor. Major issue for both IMO. Helton also did little after age 30. 5 AS teams, highest MVP vote 5th. Meh. I think this year we'll see Rivera, Halladay and probably Edgar.

Helton did tail off at the end, but some of his stats are awesome. He finished at .316 with over 2500 hits, 1400 RBI's, and 592 doubles. From 2000-2004, he batted about .349 with 250 doubles, an average of 50 a year! Yes, it's Coors field, but some of those numbers are world beaters.

[Peter_Spaeth]

42/147/.372 and he finishes 5th in the MVP. I think people rightly attributed much of it to Coors.

Look at the table for "Neutralized Batting" here. Very very revealing IMO.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...to01-bat.shtml

[Steve D]

Dale Murphy too.


Steve

[barrysloate]

Well, the point of this thread was that the Rockies have never had a HOFer. So if you are right that he doesn't get in, the anomaly will last a little longer.

[Keith H. Thompson]

the Seattle Pilots also?

[frankbmd]

I would argue that no team has had a HOFer in the lineup, because all HOFers have been inducted well after their last at bat.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Keith H. Thompson

the Seattle Pilots also?

But the Milwaukee Brewers had several. I guess that disqualifies Seattle.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Keith H. Thompson

Why not the Seattle Pilots also?

Well, the original question said “what franchise”, and the Milwaukee Brewers were/are the same franchise as the Seattle Pilots. If you want to go there, the 1961-1971 Washington Senators never had a future HOFer in their lineup either, but the Texas Rangers have had several, starting with Fergie Jenkins.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Coors Field factor. Major issue for both IMO.

You can't penalize a player because of where they play can you?

Do Red Sox players get penalized for their small park or lefty Yankee hitters and the stadiums friendly short porch?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

You can't penalize a player because of where they play can you?

Do Red Sox players get penalized for their small park or lefty Yankee hitters and the stadiums friendly short porch?

Not a matter of penalizing him, a matter of realistically assessing his ability. Coors as I understand it is by far the most advantageous park for hitters that skews stats.



https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...e-the-rockies/

[trambo]

I’m not sure it’s a slam dunk to say Helton was superior to Baines over a career. From a batting perspective, Baines had more hits, home runs and RBI so at least there’s an argument that would say Baines was as good or better than Helton. Plus Helton’s numbers are at least somewhat bloated by playing at Coors Field.

I’m not suggesting I don’t like Helton. I’m just not quite sure why there is so much shade being thrown at Baines. It’s not like he was Mario Mendoza. Nearly 2,900 hits and over 1,600 RBI are pretty solid numbers.

[barrysloate]

If a ballpark is known to be tough to hit in, wouldn't it be fair to say that all pitchers' records would be skewed? At some point, we have to accept the fact the every ballplayer has some advantages and disadvantages based on his home park.