Are the "T213-1" (1910 COUPON) cards really T206's ? ....I think so....What say you ?

tedzan · #1 12-30-2018, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

The thing that stands out the most to me is the odd group of subjects used, I think Luke mentioned it earlier. The mix of forty two 350 only subjects
with Twenty Southern Leaguers and the six super prints doesn't fit in with any of the other T206 backs. To me it seems like something that was done after
the plates were used for the T206's. Where does the 1910 date for the T213-1's come from?

Hey guys, this has all been cleared up before. I covered this situation in previous threads. So, I will reprise it here once again.

First, with all due respect to Luke (or Pat), they are appear to be uninformed as they are misleading with the above statement.

The Six Super Prints were simply 350 Series subjects when the 1910 COUPON cards were produced. It was not until later in the game that American Lithographic (ALC) selected
these six subjects from an earlier print run to be Super-Prints. And, ALC made this selection when they started printing the SOVEREIGN 460 cards (circa Summer/Fall 1910). Proof
of this is evident in the SOVEREIGN sub-set in that the Six Super Prints are found with both SOVEREIGN 350 and SOVEREIGN 460 backs, as I am illustrating here......

Furthermore, regarding the Southern Association (20) subjects, I refer you to post #24 in this thread.

Six Super Prints with SOVEREIGN 460 backs printed circa Summer/Fall 1910

.

............

1910 COUPON printed circa Spring/Summer 1910

.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Pat R · #2 12-30-2018, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey guys, this has all been cleared up before. I covered this situation in previous threads. So, I will reprise it here once again.

First, with all due respect to Luke (or Pat), they are appear to be uninformed as they are misleading with the above statement.

The Six Super Prints were simply 350 Series subjects when the 1910 COUPON cards were produced. It was not until later in the game that American Lithographic (ALC) selected
these six subjects from an earlier print run to be Super-Prints. And, ALC made this selection when they started printing the SOVEREIGN 460 cards (circa Summer/Fall 1910). Proof
of this is evident in the SOVEREIGN sub-set in that the Six Super Prints are found with both SOVEREIGN 350 and SOVEREIGN 460 backs, as I am illustrating here......

Furthermore, regarding the Southern Association (20) subjects, I refer you to post #24 in this thread.

Six Super Prints with SOVEREIGN 460 backs printed circa Summer/Fall 1910

.

............

1910 COUPON printed circa Spring/Summer 1910

.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

All of the 350 only subjects are printed with a Forrest Green back and the
super prints are printed with an Apple Green back.

RCMcKenzie · #3 12-30-2018, 06:28 PM

Here are 4 Art Fletchers from this series in varying degrees of condition. The best example is an SGC 30 which is high grade for these. SGC 40 is the highest grade I have of any player, although I have some raw nice ones that could get 40 or 50.

tedzan · #4 12-30-2018, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Here are 4 Art Fletchers from this series in varying degrees of condition. The best example is an SGC 30 which is high grade for these. SGC 40 is the highest grade I have of any player, although I have some raw nice ones that could get 40 or 50.

Hi Rob

The Grading Co.'s can be "brutal" grading these 1910 COUPON cards....and, especially PSA.
SGC 40 is the highest grade that I, also, have seen of any of these cards.

I thought I'd get a nice grade on this Chance. It doesn't have any creases (or subtle problems). When I complained to PSA, they remarked: "that's your opinion, we see it differently".

My mistake for submitting it to PSA.

.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Luke · #5 12-30-2018, 10:43 PM

It's a good point about the "Super Prints" not necessarily being a separate group in 1910. That's certainly possible. Are there any theories as to how the Super Prints were printed? Seems possible/likely to me that those 6 poses were on their own sheet. That would make it easy for them to be printed with the large number of backs they appear with.

Luke · #6 12-30-2018, 10:46 PM

Nice Evers Ryan!

That Willett is a beauty Ted. I am guessing it would grade a 2.5 or 3.

RCMcKenzie · #7 12-31-2018, 12:22 AM

Ted, that's awesome. I did not realize that you had found another T213-1 Chance and an upgrade to boot. Way to go. That card is near mint for this series. Here's an SGC 40 Rube Marquard...

tedzan · #8 12-31-2018, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

It's a good point about the "Super Prints" not necessarily being a separate group in 1910. That's certainly possible. Are there any theories as to how the Super Prints were printed? Seems possible/likely to me that those 6 poses were on their own sheet. That would make it easy for them to be printed with the large number of backs they appear with.

My theory is that this simulated sheet which I constructed* is representative of one of the early 350 Series print runs comprising of 48 subjects (circa early Spring 1910).
And interestingly, this configuration coincides with the 48 - the Major League subjects in the 1910 COUPON set.

Subsequently, ALC selected the 6 subjects that we refer to as the "Super Prints"**. When ALC included these 6 guys in the 350/460 Series, they Double-Printed them on
sheets of T206's. This is evident on numerous surveys of T206 cards.

Early 350 Series configuration (circa early Spring 1910)

Note * Placement of cards on this configuration are randomly arranged.

Note ** Scot Reader's excellent research revealed that these 6 subjects were printed in larger quantities, and with more Tobacco brands than any of the other subjects in
the T206 set. In his book titled "Inside T206", Scot identifies these 6 guys as the " Super-Prints ".

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Rhotchkiss · #9 12-31-2018, 11:15 AM

Ted, do you still have the Chance from which you upgraded? If so, let me know if you ever go to sell/trade it.

tedzan · #10 12-30-2018, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

All of the 350 only subjects are printed with a Forrest Green back and the
super prints are printed with an Apple Green back.

No kidding.....Pat

I think my SOVEREIGN 350 and SOVEREIGN 460 scans of the six super prints in post #68 clearly show the apple green vs. darker green backs, respectively.

Here is an excerpt from my thread of which I identified all 66 subjects that were printed with the "apple green" SOVEREIGN 350 backs. Back in 2007, Art Martineau first noted
that certain SOVEREIGN 350 cards had a lighter shade of GREEN backs than other SOVEREIGN 350 cards. Initially, this phenomena was mystifying to all of us. By Nov 2007, I
had completed my all-SOVEREIGN set, and this enabled me to identify the 66 cards with the apple green backs..

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Illustrated here are the 66 subjects that American Lithographic selected for the 350/460 series. American Litho printed
the backs of these 66 cards using an apple green colored ink (instead of the deep green seen on the backs of all the other SOVEREIGN cards).
For more info on this topic, check-out this thread posted in 2009....Sovereign phantom "350/460" series
Here is my concept of a 72-card sheet arrangement of these 66 subjects (Super-Prints are double-printed **)

v.................................... Six super-prints ....................................v

** Note
I show the super-prints Double-Printed (D-P) on this sheet, since several large T206 surveys have indicated that the 6 super-prints were D-P.

TED Z
.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

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