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#2
12-31-2018, 06:57 PM
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Autographs.
Quote:
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#3
12-31-2018, 07:11 PM
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card doctoring
I'm sure can be done.....but I highly doubt as easy as picking up a pen or sharpie and a few hours practice....
try this with a twelve year old......I'm sure 5 out of 10 could prob fake an auto and get it through jsa....within a few hours.... then give the kid a t206 and have him create big bordered ghost image scrap or pull a magie error off with out detection of altering or trim up a nice 8.... aint gonna happen, only with the most advanced crooks maybe, just maybe.... simple logic.....auto are just to easy to fake...by just about anyone....sucks but true!!! mantle and babe, I hate to say, prob 30 % or more are prob fakes(just an arbitrary number).... to each his own definitely.....but I cant see dumping 30k or more on a cobb auto that may have a 50/50 shot at actually being legit... make sense???? too easy to do....for so many people, cost nothing(pen ink) an a 12 year old could do it... scary shit 
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#4
12-31-2018, 07:19 PM
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btw....
the t206 counterfeiter is so stupid, he/she purchased the cards from ebay!
DUH! eventually, someone would catch on......person doesn't seem too smart....just another douchebag a - hole with a pen that was their high tech gear 
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#5
12-31-2018, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Last edited by griffon512; 12-31-2018 at 07:42 PM.
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#6
12-31-2018, 07:56 PM
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James....
completely agree....if you have cash to literally to burn its not much of a concern....a rough 70 % shot at it being legit is good enough for them
I could see idiots trying to fake Cobbs....a few minutes and BAM! a 30 k card.... lets do a joe jax while they are at it! he probably signed almost nothing cause he couldn't write.... but maybe ray liotta can do it!
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#7
12-31-2018, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
As someone who was a mason for many years it is something that 99.99% of people can't just do without a lot of practice. Those that try have some ugly looking finished product. I can guarantee the average brick layer is not very intelligent even though they are the highest paid trade. Yet they can give you a beautiful house or fireplace because they know how. Same with card doctoring it is not hard once you know how.
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#8
12-31-2018, 09:55 PM
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Ben....
i agree also, a card could be doctored also, but what to doctor???
a corner?? a wrinkle?? soak a card??? I would imagine it would be hard to create national on joe doyle...... maybe trying to doctor magie, but that is difficult im sure.... most of my scrap left are impossible to forge, especially the fat bordered grossly big bordered , weird cuts, the yellow browns ect...the whole card would have to be created and the ones I have are legit... so I'm not too sure how , at least, t206 can be altered more??? maybe trimmed cards....but I'm sure its not even close to the scale of forged autos... bats, balls, index cards, 8 X 10's, anything signed, to me, is questionable unless there is provenance.... obviously, card doctoring can be done, and I am sure it is, but it is not , I'm sure, as prevelant in comparison to autos.... autos are just too easy to forge.... take a magee, try to "doctor" the e into an i and try to get it into a tpa....I'm sure they would detect it....there probably not too many people on the planet could pull it off, and if they did/could, it would be beyond skill... so I'm not sure what else could be doctored???? even the fake rare backs were caught....????? the profit margin isn't there on trying to fake/forge other cards....how many fake magies do you think a forger is going to get through??? 1 maybe if the stars aligned and the graders were sleeping... I'm just saying, to go to that extent to try to forge big cards or try to replicate t206 as scrap is highly unlikely....almost slim to none... show some examples??? not many to be found.... on the other hand, the surface , I'm sure, is just scraped!! this is the tip of the iceberg I'm sure.... now tpg can't even be trusted....I can see making a mistake on 1 or 2 but dozens of these???????????? if the t206 forger didn't buy the cards on ebay, no one would have ever figured it out! NOW THAT IS SCARY!!!!!! how many other cards were bought at shows, the forgers just signed the item in the bathroom, then submits to james spence??? I wonder how many cobbs or mantles were cooked up while the forger sat on the toilet at a card show??? dropping # 2's and laughing his/her ass off as they submit to jsa for a multi k payoff from a 20 dollar investment? ugh.....when it comes to autos, it's beyond scary....just use logic ....it's common sense on this one.... this has happened over many years within the hobby with autos.... I believe , the future autos with concrete evidence (photos, testimonials of witnesses, provenance) will be highly prized.... so, lesson learned....if you are getting something autoed, take a picture and a picture of the piece....document it.... I have watched every episode of pawn stars too much
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#9
01-01-2019, 06:19 AM
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Will PSA honor the guarantee on the autograph cards? I would think buying PSA wouldn't be very affected due to the protection if so.
Last edited by murphy8276; 01-01-2019 at 06:19 AM.
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#10
01-01-2019, 06:51 AM
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Where can I adopt a 12 year old that can forge autos? I have a 2 year old that can make cuts with scissors though, or leave a card in the sun.
I get the gist of the thread, but you are deluding yourself of you truly think it isnt many times easier to "doctor" a card in any way, than it is to forge and auto past any TPG, and I'll include Spence in that group as well. Mind you the thread billed as "too many (forgeries) to list" has what 5 or 6 cards? All from the same forger, to the same auction house or 2? Let's skip the Doyle as I believe PSA is a bit overly cautious on that one. That isn't a whole heck of a lot, more so when the t206 Holy grail Wagner, the torchbearer of the hobby, was admittedly trimmed with matching photos. The value on that psa 8, outweighs the thread of forged autos by a little, and had no affect on the hobby.
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors
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#11
01-01-2019, 07:01 AM
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About 15 years ago I thought it would be cool to frame pics (another hobby, framing) of TV western stars and their autographs that were on 3x5 index cards. I bought 15 or 20 pics and autographed cards from eBay, none of which had a COA. I didn't care as I wouldn't be reselling and I didn't want to pay a lot of money.
More recently I have been bidding/buying pre-war hof autographed postcards, all PSA/DNA. Again, will probably never will sell. This will be the extent of my autograph collection. http://net54baseball.com/attachment....1&d=1546347602
__________________
Successful transactions with: Double-P-Enterprises, Thromdog, DavidBvintage, Desert Ice Sports, Kurtz Kardz, Cooperstown Sportscards, BBT206 and tenorvox!
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#12
01-03-2019, 09:38 PM
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What is just as scary and frustrating for me as slabbed doctored cards and forged t206’s is having genuinely un-doctored cards get regected as trimmed, altered stock, etc. I have a ‘53 topps Mantle that would easily grade an 8 that came back EVID-TRIM by PSA. Haven’t tried SGC yet but will soon. The card was busted out of a pack by my dad, then handed down to me. It was his prized possession, and I know for a fact it hasn’t been altered. Happens to a whole bunch of collectors I’m sure. So we have altered cards that are slabbed in 8 and 9 holders selling for buttloads of cash, and I may only be able to slab mine in A. How f’d up is that.....
Sorry. Rant over!
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#13
01-03-2019, 09:53 PM
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Jason....
Wow!!
that sucks......too bad there was no solid way to prove to them.....a trim is probably a little tough to tell on some cards.... there should be a way to "dispute the grade" and try to prove provenance.... its tough in your case, but they should have multiple graders look at a "disputed" card.....I really wanted to start a grading company a few years back due to these stories 
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