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  #1  
Old 01-25-2019, 10:19 AM
packs packs is offline
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Nothing bothers me more than this "failed" perspective. It's such BS and not even worth talking about. Lefty O'Doul hit 398 in 1929 as an outfielder after he "failed" as a pitcher. Does that discount hitting 398?

Give me a break.
Last edited by packs; 01-25-2019 at 10:20 AM.
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  #2  
Old 01-25-2019, 10:21 AM
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Nothing bothers me more than this "failed" perspective. It's such BS and not even worth talking about. Lefty O'Doul hit 398 in 1929 as an outfielder after he "failed" as a pitcher. Does that discount hitting 398?

Give me a break.
Babe Ruth was a failed pitcher too. So bad he had to give it up.
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  #3  
Old 01-25-2019, 10:23 AM
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Nothing bothers me more than this "failed" perspective. It's such BS and not even worth talking about. Lefty O'Doul hit 398 in 1929 as an outfielder after he "failed" as a pitcher. Does that discount hitting 398?

Give me a break.
I would agree with you the numbers are not there to say anything about him as a starter. But that said, how do you explain his extremely low inherited runners number, why didn't the Yankees use him more in late inning crisis situations instead of almost exclusively as a guy to hold a lead in the 9th?
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  #4  
Old 01-25-2019, 10:25 AM
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I would agree with you the numbers are not there to say anything about him as a starter. But that said, how do you explain his extremely low inherited runners number, why didn't the Yankees use him more in late inning crisis situations instead of almost exclusively as a guy to hold a lead in the 9th?
Are you serious? Have you not even looked at his post-season numbers? Are you really suggesting the Yankees didn't have enough faith in his abilities to use him in high leverage situations?
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:39 AM
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Are you serious? Have you not even looked at his post-season numbers? Are you really suggesting the Yankees didn't have enough faith in his abilities to use him in high leverage situations?
Again, how do you explain his inherited runners statistic? I wasn't suggesting anything, I asked a question.
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  #6  
Old 01-25-2019, 10:47 AM
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Again, how do you explain his inherited runners statistic? I wasn't suggesting anything, I asked a question.
What other explanation can there be other than that was what happened during the game? I don't even know what you're asking. It's like saying why was the sun out that afternoon.
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  #7  
Old 01-25-2019, 11:34 AM
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What other explanation can there be other than that was what happened during the game? I don't even know what you're asking. It's like saying why was the sun out that afternoon.
No, the stat obviously reflects that he was not brought into a lot of situations with men on base, and I am curious why the Yankees chose not to do that. To me the highest and best use of a great reliever would be to pitch out of a jam, not just preserve a lead.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-25-2019 at 11:37 AM.
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  #8  
Old 01-25-2019, 10:51 AM
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As I stated earlier, I lost interest in modern baseball during the steroid era but I was wondering if anyone invented a statistic yet that showed how great you were compared to your salary? I’m all for anybody making as much money as they legally can but if some guy walked into my office and said “I want 12 million per year and I’m 90% sure I can give you two or three solid innings per week” , i’d do my best Hue Jackson impersonation and tell him “get the **** out of my office”
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:35 AM
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As I stated earlier, I lost interest in modern baseball during the steroid era but I was wondering if anyone invented a statistic yet that showed how great you were compared to your salary? I’m all for anybody making as much money as they legally can but if some guy walked into my office and said “I want 12 million per year and I’m 90% sure I can give you two or three solid innings per week” , i’d do my best Hue Jackson impersonation and tell him “get the **** out of my office”
But they're two solid NINTH innings LOL.
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  #10  
Old 01-25-2019, 11:44 AM
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...trevor-hoffman
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2019, 11:48 AM
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But they're two solid NINTH innings LOL.
You’re right!!! I should have offered fifty or sixty million!! I can’t wait until he walks across water to reach the podium at the hall of fame. When he telepathically relays his acceptance speech straight into the brains of us mere mortals, it will make the special wing they’re building just for Him all worth it.
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2019, 02:27 PM
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Are you serious? Have you not even looked at his post-season numbers? Are you really suggesting the Yankees didn't have enough faith in his abilities to use him in high leverage situations?
Mariano has the 2nd most blown saves in postseason history...
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  #13  
Old 01-25-2019, 02:47 PM
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Mariano has the 2nd most blown saves in postseason history...
And Connie Mack lost almost 4,000 games. What's he doing in the HOF right?
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  #14  
Old 01-25-2019, 02:52 PM
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And Connie Mack lost almost 4,000 games. What's he doing in the HOF right?
Him or that all time walk hander-outer, Nolan Ryan. Let's break into Cooperstown with a crowbar and get those plaques off the wall...
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Last edited by jchcollins; 01-25-2019 at 02:52 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2019, 04:31 PM
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Not the point. The point is Yankee fans tend to deify Rivera and speak of him as though he was "unhittable," infallible, automatic (made all games 8 inning games), etc. As though he was on a completely different level from all other closers. He wasn't. He was a great closer, no question, the best ever, but he also blew a lot of saves, allowed a fairly high percentage of inherited runners to score, and so forth. and given the inherent limitations of a closer, nowhere near top 10 or 20 all time IMO.

And sure, if given a lead and an overwhelming majority of his appearances started with a lead and the bases empty, he very likely would preserve that lead. But as we have seen, that is true for closers in general statistically. Again, yes he was the best of them, but not IMO by such a margin that he should be deified.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-25-2019 at 04:36 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:06 PM
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Nevermind
Last edited by Paul S; 01-25-2019 at 12:10 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:11 PM
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As of 2011:
Since 1997, Rivera has inherited 323 runners, which is an average of 23 over a 162-game season. Ninety-four of the 323 inherited runners scored.

Does anyone know how that percentage compares to relievers other than Hoffman, who is mentioned in the article as being 9 percent better in that category?
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
Nothing bothers me more than this "failed" perspective. It's such BS and not even worth talking about. Lefty O'Doul hit 398 in 1929 as an outfielder after he "failed" as a pitcher. Does that discount hitting 398?

Give me a break.
No, but if he was asked to bunt all of the time would he be the best hitter ever if he could get on .300 percent of the time? Heck, raise that to say .400 career lifetime of bunting everything and he has the highest batting average of any player in history.

No, he would be the best bunter and maybe not even that, and he would have been a "failed" pitcher on top of that.
Last edited by MichelaiTorres83; 01-25-2019 at 12:30 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-25-2019, 01:59 PM
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No, but if he was asked to bunt all of the time would he be the best hitter ever if he could get on .300 percent of the time? Heck, raise that to say .400 career lifetime of bunting everything and he has the highest batting average of any player in history.

No, he would be the best bunter and maybe not even that, and he would have been a "failed" pitcher on top of that.
Well, I'm sure old Lefty felt like a real failure at anything after he hit 398. Probably felt even worse when he led the league in hitting again in 1932 when he only hit 368. If only he had been a good starting pitcher, the rest of his career would have meant something.
Last edited by packs; 01-25-2019 at 02:00 PM.
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