Another T206 Old Mill Blue Back??

[Luke]

Ryan,

Yes, Powell and Walsh are both 150-350 Series subjects and it's very plausible they were on the same sheet. When I get a chance I'll look at Pat's Plate Scratch research to see if he has either or both players placed on sheets.

Also, the back of the Blue Old Mill Walsh shares multiple little print flaws with other Walsh Old Mills. Some people have said that the Walsh could be re-backed with a blue reprint. That is not the case. I'm not saying I know the Walsh is legit, just that it isn't as simple as a re-back.

[Al C.risafulli]

Those USB microscope scans are really, really cool.

It's certainly not outside the realm of possibility that the card is authentic. We've seen every manner of freaky print error on the fronts of T206s over the years.

A second blue back certainly makes me feel better about the first one.

-Al

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Question about the Kleinow you posted. The back lower right print seems to have a blue tone to it compared to the rest of the back. It could be my eye sight.

Also, I thought I heard that you could not actually make a black that they are all really dark blues to make black. Is this true?

The other question i have is about Old Mill backs that look brown but are just an off black. Is it possible this could be the case with these OMs?

Lee

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by Sterling Sports Auctions

Question about the Kleinow you posted. The back lower right print seems to have a blue tone to it compared to the rest of the back. It could be my eye sight.

Also, I thought I heard that you could not actually make a black that they are all really dark blues to make black. Is this true?

The other question i have is about Old Mill backs that look brown but are just an off black. Is it possible this could be the case with these OMs?

Lee

I know that depending on the angle you look at the picture on some monitors will change the color a bit. Viewing it under the microscope shows no sign of blue. The blue Old Mill does show small black pigment spots everywhere and the same on Polar Bears. If Polar Bears were printed in Print Group 1, it would practically be a open and closed case.

[Ronnie73]

So here are my latest pictures. The first is under the microscope of a Piedmont 150 and the Blue Old Mill. The second is a scan of 5 cards at 1200dpi. From left to right: Blue Old Mill, Piedmont 150, Polar Bear, Piedmont 350, and Old Mill Black. The Piedmont 150 has a few microscopic black ink pigment areas just like the Blue Old Mill. So what do you guys think? Seems to match up with the Piedmont 150 better than the Polar Bear.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Sterling Sports Auctions

Question about the Kleinow you posted. The back lower right print seems to have a blue tone to it compared to the rest of the back. It could be my eye sight.

Also, I thought I heard that you could not actually make a black that they are all really dark blues to make black. Is this true?

The other question i have is about Old Mill backs that look brown but are just an off black. Is it possible this could be the case with these OMs?

Lee

Closer to the reverse. Black is incredibly easy to make. It's generally carbon black or lampblack, both Carbon in different forms. Mix with a carrier or some hardening oil, and you've got black ink.

Blue is marginally tougher. Early blues were often ground Lapis Lazuli in the same carrier. Later ones were a chemical dye. 1910 ish, it's a coin toss as to which one was used.
My chemistry set had one experiment that made a chemical blue that could be changed to black and changed back to blue. It was a long time ago, and I don't recall what it was made of, but it was in a kids chemistry set so it wasn't difficult.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Luke

Ryan,

Yes, Powell and Walsh are both 150-350 Series subjects and it's very plausible they were on the same sheet. When I get a chance I'll look at Pat's Plate Scratch research to see if he has either or both players placed on sheets.

Also, the back of the Blue Old Mill Walsh shares multiple little print flaws with other Walsh Old Mills. Some people have said that the Walsh could be re-backed with a blue reprint. That is not the case. I'm not saying I know the Walsh is legit, just that it isn't as simple as a re-back.

Powell and Walsh both have plate scratches but they were on separate sheets but I think it's fair to assume that they could have been on the
same Old Mill sheet because the 150/350 subjects were printed with Old Mill backs during the 350 printing and the sheet layouts changed.

I have Walsh on the left corner of sheet 2b and Ames has the same scratch and is on the left corner of 2a.

0 Ames-Walsh.jpg

0 Sheet 2A.jpg 0 Sheet 2B.jpg


I have Powell in the left of middle of Sheet 1a and Goode has the same scratch
and is in the left of middle of 1b.

Powell-Goode.jpg

0 Sheet 1A.jpg 0 Sheet 1B.jpg

[MichelaiTorres83]

I will say they certianly look good. It is possible and even probable but the coincidences are way too convenient and I am very highly skeptical still.

It is not like this beat up card has to be looked at under a microscope to see it is blue.

This would be a whole new back given they are factory cut cards. Give pause and soak that concept in for a moment. It is not just a little blue. It is really blue.