UPDATED 5/16: BEWARE PAYPAL CHARGEBACKS! If you sell on eBay, read this...

glchen · #1 03-01-2019, 02:33 PM

I think you need to escalate this and talk to someone else at Paypal. How can you give a refund if you did not even receive your original item back? The buyer needs to prove that they went you the card back with the tracking number and the signature confirmation. Otherwise, it's just mail fraud.

chalupacollects · #2 03-01-2019, 03:05 PM

Yes you might want to start a conversation with your local post office about mail fraud and let the buyer know...

Also posting then name here would help other sellers out.. And if your are on BO they have a section dedicated to this stuff...

D. Bergin · #3 03-01-2019, 03:19 PM

Yes, post the ID and then send another message to the buyer telling them you are going to open a mail fraud case through the Post Office. That should at least get them thinking on either getting your money, or your card back.

Gusturd · #4 03-01-2019, 03:24 PM

And good old eBay won't even let you leave honest feedback.

D. Bergin · #5 03-01-2019, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gusturd

And good old eBay won't even let you leave honest feedback.

That ship has long ago sailed. It doesn't even bother me anymore.

What galls me is that if you go on one of the Ebay seller forums and out an ID of somebody who is obviously defrauding other sellers, Ebay is likely to suspend YOU for posting somebody else's ID, no matter what the reason.

I got warned once and had posts deleted just for posting the communications between myself and somebody who was trying to scam me. I didn't even mention any ID's. Ebay told me all communications are to be private, even fraudulent ones.

bnorth · #6 03-01-2019, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

That ship has long ago sailed. It doesn't even bother me anymore.

What galls me is that if you go on one of the Ebay seller forums and out an ID of somebody who is obviously defrauding other sellers, Ebay is likely to suspend YOU for posting somebody else's ID, no matter what the reason.

I got warned once and had posts deleted just for posting the communications between myself and somebody who was trying to scam me. I didn't even mention any ID's. Ebay told me all communications are to be private, even fraudulent ones.

It has been like that for easily 5-6 years.

I get it because every place has an agenda. I am on a forum that you can't call out the horrible things some businesses do or you will get banned. It is just the stuff you have to put up with to play in someone elses sandbox.

jb217676 · #7 03-01-2019, 07:36 PM

Doesn't the buyer need to provide proof to receive a refund, like a tracking number showing the card was returned to you? Why are you forced to give a refund if the card wasn't returned?
Jeff

Jim F · #8 03-01-2019, 03:28 PM

Most people do not realize that there is a 180 day period that the buyer can ask for a refund through Paypal.
PayPal changed this to 180 days because that's what the credit card companies offer and paypal can't really fight that. Even when the refund period was 45 days(I believe). They could not do anything about a credit card charge back.
All sellers should be aware that they are actually on the hook for 6 months. That's alot of time for people like this to screw you.

rjackson44 · #9 03-01-2019, 04:01 PM

I will never give paypal a penny or ever sell anything in fee bay.i use a debit card to pay ,,paypal is a horror show ,,sell here b.s.t ,,.. never had one issue.net 54 rocks

CTDean · #10 03-01-2019, 04:21 PM

Bypass the local Postmaster and file a fraud complaint online or by phone with the US Postal Inspectors. They will forward a copy of your complaint to the Postmaster at the Post Office where your package was received. The fraud will get investigated, and you will get a response to your complaint. Once you file the complaint online, I would call the Postmaster at the package receiving end to give him a heads up about the PI fraud complaint. He may have received other complaints relating to this same person. The Postal Inspectors resolved two cases for me very quickly, but in both of mine the delivery person failed to scan the package which was insured.
It would help us if we had an ebay ID for the buyer. I would also google the buyers address to see if it is located at a mail receiving business.

AGuinness · #11 03-01-2019, 04:26 PM

I understand if the OP is hesitant to post the eBay ID of this fraudster. However, just a quick glance at a Clean Sweep catalogue and I can find names and full addresses of reneggers from previous auctions.
If it were me, I would let the buyer know that I will post the eBay ID, name and zip code on message boards with the backstory if he/she does not return the card or ensure full payment. I don't even qualify as a small-time seller on eBay, but I'll surely block this buyer, as I'm sure many others here would do. I'd explain that this person's reputation in the hobby can't be worth $1,400 and that it would behoove them to make this right.
And if they still didn't do so, I'd post it all.
This loophole is pretty awful and it's hard to believe Paypal would let it happen this way. GL with it all!

bounce · #12 03-01-2019, 05:05 PM

UPDATE:

Spoke to a supervisor at Paypal, basically the same story.

Federal law provides buyer's the ability to dispute charges with their financial institutions. In a case like this, Paypal is simply a conduit who acts on my behalf as a seller to respond to these cases, however it's the other financial institution who decides whether the chargeback occurs or not. Paypal says they have NO CONTROL over that decision.

Paypal also said that they DO NOT RECEIVE any information from the other financial institution, other than the request. They said that there is a 3rd party involved (likely a judge somewhere) who is provided the information from both sides and ultimately makes the decision. However, Paypal CANNOT SHARE THAT INFORMATION WITH ME.

So again, there's a mystery financial institution, a mystery "arbiter" so to speak, that I don't have direct access to communicate with to prove that I held up my end of this deal.

Additionally, chargeback policies are at the discretion and prerogative of each individual "financial institution", meaning they set the rules and as a seller I'm ultimately at risk of having to abide by those terms despite no notice of what they may be. Paypal acts on my behalf to defend against it, but ultimately has no authority to stop it. Many of those policies allow for chargebacks up to 6 months and sometimes longer, and may not necessarily require valid evidence to support the claim.

So, it really doesn't matter that I was never requested to issue a refund by the buyer or their financial institution, they can simply claim it under those words and there's really nothing I can do about it other than hope that this mystery person somehow rules in my favor.

My expectation of recovery has officially dropped to zero as of this point - I will not get that money and I will not get that card back.

I've considered going back to eBay on this, but I already know what they're going to say to me - payment went through Paypal, not it.

Appreciate the other advice, I will consult an attorney and try and understand what other options I have that would potentially yield any reasonable hope of success or recovery.

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