Bat Relic Cards

Michael B · #1 03-21-2019, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfhofer

Touche Mark. I agree. Although if it was a true national treasure it should be in a museum for all to enjoy. Then that would never happen. For a single advanced collector to privately hoard priceless national treasures in his basement without sharing them with others isn't very noble either. Both examples are rooted in greed.

I strongly disagree. If not for the collectors who recognize the value and significance of items many would never be seen or lost. One of the big fallacies is that if a museum has it they will display it. Many museums only display a fraction of their holdings. The Smithsonian is a good example. You could go to every single museum building here in D.C. and look at every item on display. You will have viewed less than 1/10th of 1% of their holdings. They display items that people will find interesting, but that is for the masses and it changes with time. A lot less people today are interested in seeing Fonzie's jacket or Archie Bunker's chair then 20-30 years ago. With collectors there is always the chance that it will change hands and new people will get to enjoy it.

I agree that chopping up a bat or cutting up a uniform is bothersome, however it is a big stretch to call a Tony Lazzeri bat a 'national treasure.

cfhofer · #2 03-21-2019, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael B

I strongly disagree. If not for the collectors who recognize the value and significance of items many would never be seen or lost. One of the big fallacies is that if a museum has it they will display it. Many museums only display a fraction of their holdings. The Smithsonian is a good example. You could go to every single museum building here in D.C. and look at every item on display. You will have viewed less than 1/10th of 1% of their holdings. They display items that people will find interesting, but that is for the masses and it changes with time. A lot less people today are interested in seeing Fonzie's jacket or Archie Bunker's chair then 20-30 years ago. With collectors there is always the chance that it will change hands and new people will get to enjoy it.

I agree that chopping up a bat or cutting up a uniform is bothersome, however it is a big stretch to call a Tony Lazzeri bat a 'national treasure.

Of course no museum will display every holding. No one here is suggesting they should. I also agree that a Tony Lazzeri bat is not a 'national treasure'. But I guarantee the museum wouldn't sell a Lazzeri bat to be chopped up by a card company either.

I don't blame card companies for meeting a market demand. There is a thirst for relic cards so they quench it. They have no obligation to the hobby. But if we feel that destroying artifacts is wrong than we need to take a hard look in the mirror at who is really causing this problem.

Michael B · #3 03-21-2019, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfhofer

Of course no museum will display every holding. No one here is suggesting they should. I also agree that a Tony Lazzeri bat is not a 'national treasure'. But I guarantee the museum wouldn't sell a Lazzeri bat to be chopped up by a card company either.

I don't blame card companies for meeting a market demand. There is a thirst for relic cards so they quench it. They have no obligation to the hobby. But if we feel that destroying artifacts is wrong than we need to take a hard look in the mirror at who is really causing this problem.

I am with you on the destroying artifacts. The card companies created a niche and thus created market demand to sell more of their products. They have the money so they buy the items. Unfortunately, in this case, those who have the money make the rules.

When my Olympic group had space at the National a number of years ago I was approached by someone from Panini about purchasing autographs for their signature cards. I never followed through because I did not want them cutting up photos and other items to create the cards.

Gary Dunaier · #4 03-21-2019, 10:38 PM

At the 2008 All-Star Fanfest in New York, there was a dealer selling capsules with sawdust from game-used bats from such players as Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron, and more. Here's a photo:

(Photo taken July 14, 2008. � Gary Dunaier. Link to upload on Flickr.com: here.)

The capsules supposedly contained actual sawdust from game-used bats used by the players noted. The dealer who was selling these said they came out a few years ago, and that he hadn't seen them around for sale that much and he was pretty much the only guy who was selling them. For all I know this was a big scam, but I bought a couple of Ty Cobbs ($15 apiece) anyway because they were produced by the Highland Mint, so I had no reason to question their authenticity.

Case12 · #5 03-22-2019, 01:53 PM

I guess my question was not so much the moral or ethics of destroying a bat. But rather, how could we ever believe it is real and not just a chip of wood from a 2x4? Autographs are hard, but the relic cards would be impossible to authenticate. (This coming from me who bought a bottle of sand from Iwo Jima beach to remember his grandad. Could be from any black sand beach in the world...ha,ha)

CobbSpikedMe · #6 03-23-2019, 03:03 PM

While I tend to agree that cutting up significant vintage/prewar items to put pieces in cards is a bad idea, I actually like the jersey/bat cards of modern or postwar players that are much more plentiful and not nearly as historically significant or rare.

I find the modern cards with swatches of jersey or slivers of a bat a more attractive card than the regular base cards. I don't collect any modern sets, so I only pick up cards of players that I like or watched as a kid and I prefer to get a game used card than some random card from a set that I'm not collecting.

I think you need to have some faith that the jersey or bat is what the card company says it is and it's genuine. I wouldn't drop big money on one of them, I usually pick up lower dollar cards that I like the look of. I don't care if it's low numbered or some special color refractor either so there are tons of cards for me to choose from in my price range these days. You can go to a show and find a dealer with thousands of game used cards to choose from for under $20 and find some great players cards.

steve B · #7 03-26-2019, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael B

I strongly disagree. If not for the collectors who recognize the value and significance of items many would never be seen or lost. One of the big fallacies is that if a museum has it they will display it. Many museums only display a fraction of their holdings. The Smithsonian is a good example. You could go to every single museum building here in D.C. and look at every item on display. You will have viewed less than 1/10th of 1% of their holdings. They display items that people will find interesting, but that is for the masses and it changes with time. A lot less people today are interested in seeing Fonzie's jacket or Archie Bunker's chair then 20-30 years ago. With collectors there is always the chance that it will change hands and new people will get to enjoy it.

I agree that chopping up a bat or cutting up a uniform is bothersome, however it is a big stretch to call a Tony Lazzeri bat a 'national treasure.

^^^This...

Even the big museums recognize the part collectors play in preserving historical items. Especially collectors who bought things when they weren't considered important. Or that preserved something with a lot of context, like not breaking up a correspondence to sell individual items.

And the bit about not having everything on display is incredibly accurate. Most of a large museums holdings are there for eventual scholarly research, and aren't generally accessible.

In the 1980's I think the Smithsonian did its first inventory in a long time. They found 9 whale skeletons they'd misplaced in the 1950's

A bat that wasn't destined for display might never see the light of day or display case again.

I personally dislike bat/jersey cards of old time players. Current players can simply use a piece for an at bat or inning and turn it in as game used, so there shouldn't be any supply problems. Old stuff where there's a limited supply shouldn't be cut up, with the occasional exception of something in extremely poor condition. And even then I have doubts.

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