1936 Joltin' Joe

[Leon]

Originally Posted by WWG

Card has been withdrawn from HA Auction.

And you have been suspended for bad registration information until it is rectified. Why are all of these bad registration sleuths from FL.?

[barrysloate]

I find this whole situation extraordinary. The 36 DiMaggio is just one of many thousands of altered cards that are currently slabbed, yet every time a major auction concludes we see countless price records for high end cards shattered. At what point does the hobby say enough is enough? And when do TPG's start investing in better technology so they can start ferreting out these bad cards instead of holdering them?

I understand why collectors hold on to what they have. The common mantra is "I don't actually have any of these bad cards in my collection, it's only the other guy who has the altered ones. I checked mine out carefully and they're all good." That is the ostrich with his head in the sand that has been a fixture of this hobby for as long as I can remember. But why don't collectors finally stand up and say we aren't going to buy any more of this crap until the TPG's find a better way to do this. As I said, I really find this to be amazing. If somebody else can explain this, please do.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I find this whole situation extraordinary. The 36 DiMaggio is just one of many thousands of altered cards that are currently slabbed, yet every time a major auction concludes we see countless price records for high end cards shattered. At what point does the hobby say enough is enough? And when do TPG's start investing in better technology so they can start ferreting out these bad cards instead of holdering them?

I understand why collectors hold on to what they have. The common mantra is "I don't actually have any of these bad cards in my collection, it's only the other guy who has the altered ones. I checked mine out carefully and they're all good." That is the ostrich with his head in the sand that has been a fixture of this hobby for as long as I can remember. But why don't collectors finally stand up and say we aren't going to buy any more of this crap until the TPG's find a better way to do this. As I said, I really find this to be amazing. If somebody else can explain this, please do.

Stuff trumps all, Barry, you know that. These little one off fiascos will flare and die every so often and nothing will change. And the criminals know that.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Stuff trumps all, Barry, you know that. These little one off fiascos will flare and die every so often and nothing will change. And the criminals know that.

My guess, and this is only a guess, is the OP is a criminal himself. And if he comes back with good registration information I will say I was wrong. No problemo. Actually, I hope I am wrong.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Stuff trumps all, Barry, you know that. These little one off fiascos will flare and die every so often and nothing will change. And the criminals know that.

I know Peter that it's all about the stuff, but that's too simple an answer. I'm happy to pay a dollar for a card that's worth a dollar, but I won't pay a dollar for a card that was worth twenty-five cents before the doctors got to it. There's a disconnect that doesn't make sense. Everybody wants to get a good value and not to get taken.

[Throttlesteer]

Better to buy low-->mid grade. They aren't exempt from this nonsense, but it's less likely.

[Touch'EmAll]

There may be a lot of doctored cards in slabs. But I bet there are a lot more cards that are genuine and, for the most part, accurately graded. Can you imagine the state of the hobby right now if companies like SGC and PSA didn't exist and all we had were raw copies. Talk about the card doctors going to town and having a heyday, whew! I have seen the advent of slabbed cards come into being. I got together with a few other collectors back in the early 1990's and sent in my first PSA submission. Dang, I thought, this is cool, a step toward getting it right and not getting shystered. So I dove back into the hobby with long term investment in mind. Glad I did. But looking back, I highly doubt I would have ever put decent money into this hobby if all we had was raw. Yeah, some will get through, like no duh. But imho it is sure better than the old days.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

There may be a lot of doctored cards in slabs. But I bet there are a lot more cards that are genuine and, for the most part, accurately graded. Can you imagine the state of the hobby right now if companies like SGC and PSA didn't exist and all we had were raw copies. Talk about the card doctors going to town and having a heyday, whew! I have seen the advent of slabbed cards come into being. I got together with a few other collectors back in the early 1990's and sent in my first PSA submission. Dang, I thought, this is cool, a step toward getting it right and not getting shystered. So I dove back into the hobby with long term investment in mind. Glad I did. But looking back, I highly doubt I would have ever put decent money into this hobby if all we had was raw. Yeah, some will get through, like no duh. But imho it is sure better than the old days.

I am guessing there are a lot more cards that have been messed with in slabs than we think. The slab gives a false sense of security so that we do not need to look for alterations. As buyers we can be less educated on how to spot those alterations and what to look for if we solely rely on what the grading companies tell us--the dumbing of the consumer. Once the card is slabbed it is harder to see alterations. So I am not sure that grading is benefiting end users as much as it was intending to.

How someone was able to cut up this Joe D card and get it past SGC does not sit right with me. If the work is getting THAT good it is a huge problem. Still curious how the OP figured it out. It is almost a needle in a haystack.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I am guessing there are a lot more cards that have been messed with in slabs than we think. The slab gives a false sense of security so that we do not need to look for alterations. As buyers we can be less educated on how to spot those alterations and what to look for if we solely rely on what the grading companies tell us--the dumbing of the consumer. Once the card is slabbed it is harder to see alterations. So I am not sure that grading is benefiting end users as much as it was intending to.

How someone was able to cut up this Joe D card and get it past SGC does not sit right with me. If the work is getting THAT good it is a huge problem. Still curious how the OP figured it out. It is almost a needle in a haystack.

OP obviously pays close attention to these cards, look at his name and avatar.

[luciobar1980]

I mean to me this just means that there isn't a grading company that out there that is 100% foolproof, and that detecting trimmed cards is more difficult than we think? Which sucks. I don't really think SGC should be ashamed about this, it's just the way it is. Humans aren't perfect machines and every grading company will f up from time to time.

Think about all the times this probably happens and no one puts it together and posts about it like this on a message board.

Does this issue vary quite a bit in terms of size??

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by luciobar1980

I mean to me this just means that there isn't a grading company that out there that is 100% foolproof, and that detecting trimmed cards is more difficult than we think? Which sucks. I don't really think SGC should be ashamed about this, it's just the way it is. Humans aren't perfect machines and every grading company will f up from time to time.

Think about all the times this probably happens and no one puts it together and posts about it like this on a message board.

I don't think you understand the severity of this. Despite seeing the before and after scans which clearly shows that the L&R borders were chopped, SGC still chose to do nothing about it. They had a chance to fix this mistake, but decided not to. This is very unprofessional and one day somebody is going to pay three million dollars for this trimmed POS.

[bigfanNY]

See post #66 in this thread. Contact for Heritage Auctions said that card would be sent to SGC for review. It would be very sad if SGC left this card in the Holder and just moved on. But given it is still on the POP report it looks like that is what happened.

[luciobar1980]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I don't think you understand the severity of this. Despite seeing the before and after scans which clearly shows that the L&R borders were chopped, SGC still chose to do nothing about it. They had a chance to fix this mistake, but decided not to. This is very unprofessional and one day somebody is going to pay three million dollars for this trimmed POS.

Oh ok, didn't realize they actually knew about it and decided to ignore it. Well, when it comes to money people will ignore morals and ethics, I guess. And I'm generally an SGC fan, way over PSA.