PWCC E98 Black Swamp (De-Identi-) Find

[x2drich2000]

I think these may be new releases held back from the original find. When the show Strange Inheritance aired about the BSF, the primary contact admitted on the show that some family members decided to hold onto their portion of the collection and not consign them to Heritage. The show claimed the total number found was over 800. How many were originally held back and what the actual total was, who knows.

However, just to put some rough numbers to it, a search of Heritage website for "Black Swamp Find" comes up with 570 past results including 1 lot of 29 and 1 lot of 27 for a total of 624 cards (not factoring in any BSF cards resold or keyword hyping/spamming). Add the 175 newly graded examples and you get 799.

DJ

[bigfish]

I think there’s a lot more that were held back that are now being sprinkled into the market. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a lot more to come.

[groundskeeper]

The PWCC BSF Bender sold for $2000 more than a Memory Lane BSF Bender (of the same grade) 3 days prior. Maybe the drug dealer/money launderer who bought it will feel bad when he finds out there's a bunch more cards yet to hit the market.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Paul good research, to me the most likely explanation is the family held some back and/or moved some other than to Heritage.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by groundskeeper

The PWCC BSF Bender sold for $2000 more than a Memory Lane BSF Bender (of the same grade) 3 days prior. Maybe the drug dealer/money launderer who bought it will feel bad when he finds out there's a bunch more cards yet to hit the market.

Wow. Aggressive.

[RCMcKenzie]

My understanding is that he found them in grandpa's attic and the rest is history. It sort of ruined e98's for me as I have not bid on one since 2011.

[Goudey77]

I guess i'm not understanding why this ruins the demand or why collectors would fall out of favor for the e98's? They are still relatively scarce. The recent sale prices show that there is little impact to the demand.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

I guess i'm not understanding why this ruins the demand or why collectors would fall out of favor for the e98's? They are still relatively scarce. The recent sale prices show that there is little impact to the demand.

Relative to what? PSA 3 T206s?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

My understanding is that he found them in grandpa's attic and the rest is history. It sort of ruined e98's for me as I have not bid on one since 2011.

I totally agree!!!! I collect color runs...and I have an e98 color run of jennings. It took me years to complete...as these cards are/were really hard to find especially in a certain color background...and as has been stated I think there were a few higher grade e98's out there...but nothing like the BSF provided!!!!

I was glad there were few jennings cards in the find...but I always felt these BSF cards shouldn't warrant similar values to "original" circulated ones.

[ullmandds]

I suppose the more I think about it the BCF find is very similar to the high-grade find of 1952 topps cards that Mr. mint bought many years ago. And likely overtime the black swamp cards will find their ways into new holders not linking them to the find and they Will get snatched up by collectors who do not know the backstory for large sums of money!!

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by groundskeeper

The PWCC BSF Bender sold for $2000 more than a Memory Lane BSF Bender (of the same grade) 3 days prior. Maybe the drug dealer/money launderer who bought it will feel bad when he finds out there's a bunch more cards yet to hit the market.

I'm not too familiar with the process, but if you wanted to launder drug money through the hobby wouldn't you buy cards for cash at a show, then sell through PWCC or another AH?

[ullmandds]

My non bsf jennings run

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

My non bsf jennings run

Beautiful! From a scarcity standpoint you picked the right guy to do the run. Just one BSF Jennings and it is a 1.5.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Beautiful! From a scarcity standpoint you picked the right guy to do the run. Just one BSF Jennings and it is a 1.5.

ya I lucked out in that regard!!!! there were times at nationals I'd be looking for e98's...only to find maybe a small handfull...at the whole national!!!!! That all changed after the BSF!!!!

[glynparson]

Well it wouldn’t be the internet if we didn’t have a bunch of fools with limited knowledge spouting bs conspiracy theories.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

I think these may be new releases held back from the original find. When the show Strange Inheritance aired about the BSF, the primary contact admitted on the show that some family members decided to hold onto their portion of the collection and not consign them to Heritage. The show claimed the total number found was over 800. How many were originally held back and what the actual total was, who knows.

However, just to put some rough numbers to it, a search of Heritage website for "Black Swamp Find" comes up with 570 past results including 1 lot of 29 and 1 lot of 27 for a total of 624 cards (not factoring in any BSF cards resold or keyword hyping/spamming). Add the 175 newly graded examples and you get 799.

DJ

If I added correctly, the PSA Pop Report shows only 616 graded and in most instances only 18 of each player have been graded. 616 in the Pop but 799 based on the count???? Also seems odd that with as many cards as were found and the different quantities that there would be such a uniform population of each player. Is it possible PSA is not updating the Pop for these cards?

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

If I added correctly, the PSA Pop Report shows only 616 graded and in most instances only 18 of each player have been graded. 616 in the Pop but 799 based on the count???? Also seems odd that with as many cards as were found and the different quantities that there would be such a uniform population of each player. Is it possible PSA is not updating the Pop for these cards?

Is your 616 just BSF? Because the 175 are not labeled BSF, but definitely came from that find.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Is your 616 just BSF? Because the 175 are not labeled BSF, but definitely came from that find.

Yes just BSFs. So none of the newly graded 175 have the BSF designation? Anyway to determine if these 175 are fresh to the market as opposed to reholders for the purpose of removing the designation? And any ideas what the Pop Report figures show now on the BSF as compared to when the cards were initially graded by Heritage?

Also I have seen quite a few higher graded E98s in SGC holders some of which have the BSF designation as well.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Yes just BSFs. So none of the newly graded 175 have the BSF designation? Anyway to determine if these 175 are fresh to the market as opposed to reholders for the purpose of removing the designation? And any ideas what the Pop Report figures show now on the BSF as compared to when the cards were initially graded by Heritage?

Also I have seen quite a few higher graded E98s in SGC holders some of which have the BSF designation as well.

This link has the pop reports from 2012.

http://forum.net54baseball.com/showt...54#post1660954

A quick read suggests some reholdering for purposes of improving the grade going on. But 175 times? Seems unlikely to me, but who knows. E.g., Possible a few PSA 8 and 8.5 Benders were resubmitted and got 9s.

[swarmee]

It's also possible that people crossed over to SGC and then the next buyer moved them back to PSA. If they were cracked, they're still in the pop report. If they were crossover submissions, I think SGC should have returned the flips to PSA so they could be removed from the POP report. Heck, the people who crack them should as well.

[glchen]

I really don't get this conspiracy theory at all in that someone is still minting these. That just sounds absurd to me. For one thing, where are all the Mathewsons? After Cobb and Wagner, this would the third best card in the set.

As others have said, I think there was just a massive find where someone unearthed a bunch of these, and now are slowly releasing to the market. Who knows how big the final number is. It may be huge. That's why I've always been very cautious about buying E98's because we don't know what the final number will be at this point. However, if someone is willing to sell me a Cobb is 9 grade (PSA or SGC), I'll be happy to buy one for $3K! Still hoping it reaches that level.