God almighty! (Buyers beware)^100

[swarmee]

Again, half of these cards were graded by BGS (check the other threads all over blowout). And at least with PSA, the buyers have the Grade Guarantee and can get their money back. With BGS, what do they get? Nada. And this is the holy grail modern market that SGC is trying to get a foothold in. Good luck. The only reason they're not exposed is because nobody submits to them for this.

But yes, they are still setting record prices with modern card grading because the buyers don't seem to know the whole story yet.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Again, half of these cards were graded by BGS (check the other threads all over blowout). And at least with PSA, the buyers have the Grade Guarantee and can get their money back. With BGS, what do they get? Nada. And this is the holy grail modern market that SGC is trying to get a foothold in. Good luck. The only reason they're not exposed is because nobody submits to them for this.

But yes, they are still setting record prices with modern card grading because the buyers don't seem to know the whole story yet.

To me, Beckett is essentially irrelevant at this point. Their values relative to PSA are dropping all the time. Their grading on Star basketball is a joke, if only they weren't the only choice. They don't seem to have a clue what's trimmed, on a broad scale. Etc. So yes, the threads are about them too, but I don't care.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Again, half of these cards were graded by BGS (check the other threads all over blowout). And at least with PSA, the buyers have the Grade Guarantee and can get their money back. With BGS, what do they get? Nada. And this is the holy grail modern market that SGC is trying to get a foothold in. Good luck. The only reason they're not exposed is because nobody submits to them for this.

But yes, they are still setting record prices with modern card grading because the buyers don't seem to know the whole story yet.

John how many people do you think PSA is really going to refund here? The guaranty is only good if PSA admits the card is bad. PSA is still claiming the Wagner is good, what does that tell you.

[swarmee]

Has PSA actually regraded/reviewed the "8" Wagner, or are you bloviating? I believe it has been reholdered, but if the owner didn't want the grade changed, then PSA has done what they were asked to do.
It would be hard to value that card in an AUTH ALTERED holder because it is still the most famous Wagner copy and has it's own provenance that includes the Great One, so it would be difficult to find out the difference that PSA should be liable for. However, I agree with you, they should recall that card and do the job.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Has PSA actually regraded/reviewed the "8" Wagner, or are you bloviating? I believe it has been reholdered, but if the owner didn't want the grade changed, then PSA has done what they were asked to do.
It would be hard to value that card in an AUTH ALTERED holder because it is still the most famous Wagner copy and has it's own provenance that includes the Great One, so it would be difficult to find out the difference that PSA should be liable for. However, I agree with you, they should recall that card and do the job.

After Mastro admitted trimming it, David Hall at one of the PSA functions specifically reaffirmed that he had personally seen the card and it was good and Mastro should not be believed, as I understand it. I recall something similar happened when in the book "The Card" Bill Hughes, who graded it for PSA, said they knew it was trimmed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ite...ntry-1.1632308

[tschock]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Again, half of these cards were graded by BGS (check the other threads all over blowout).

Is that your 'guess' or did you actually count them? I didn't check blowout, but the count I got from the SCR piece was:
PSA - 38
Beckett - 21 (ALL Beckett, whether BGS or BVG)
Hardly half. More like 1/3 Beckett and 2/3 PSA.

Does Blowout paint a different picture to relative percentages? Or is this through PSA-tinted glasses? FWIW, I have no skin in the game either way (beyond how it affects the industry as a whole), but let's not try to sugar coat PSA's lack of ability to sniff these out either.

[swarmee]

I didn't do the math, but this latest round has been almost all PSA. Both deserve heavy criticism, and there is concern the current PWCC 52 Mantle PSA 4.5 may have been pressed as well that didn't get detected.
BGS and SGC usually get the cover in these threads and PSA takes all the bashing. Just trying to show it's not a one horse show.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I didn't do the math, but this latest round has been almost all PSA. Both deserve heavy criticism, and there is concern the current PWCC 52 Mantle PSA 4.5 may have been pressed as well that didn't get detected.
BGS and SGC usually get the cover in these threads and PSA takes all the bashing. Just trying to show it's not a one horse show.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1290614

[bigfanNY]

I saw the comment on junior graders but when you are going to give a card worth this kind of money a 10 I think ANY TPG should cover all the basics. Clearly all that needed to happen to stop this was to measure the cards. Not exactly crime lab level scrutiny.
I personally do not spend thousands of dollars on these types of cards, but i do spend hundreds and I will definitely be measuring cards after every purchase.
J