PWCC first 1 sticker, then 2, now 3 different?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Who cares? This is like crying over spilled milk. If it gets a consignor more money, and there is full transparency, then good for PWCC. A LOT of our members use them and seem happy. I spoke with Brent quite a bit at the Texas Card Show and they have some neat stuff going on, besides the stickers. Time will tell.

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I suppose I care one because it likely drives up prices and two because stupid gimmicks just offend me. I agree that it's good marketing, my issue is more with the people who put value on these stickers.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I suppose I care one because it likely drives up prices and two because stupid gimmicks just offend me. I agree that it's good marketing, my issue is more with the people who put value on these stickers.

But you're trying to rationalize it. You can't. I'm the same way with grading. For the life of me, I don't understand why someone cares about what someone else thinks about their card. It blows my mind. What makes someone submit a card to be graded? Are they really that ignorant of hobby standards that they can't look at a card and judge the condition for themselves that they need a 3rd party to do it for them? Do these same people seek advice about other things too? Do these same people need reassurance to tell them how pretty their wife is? How fine their home is? How nice their car is? If not, then why do they need someone to tell them the condition of their card? There's absolutely no difference in a buyer putting value in a PWCC sticker than there is some collector putting value in what some TPG says. Again, I'm with you, Peter. It doesn't make sense to me either. But rather than trying to make sense of it, I just go with it. Who am I to tell someone else what to collect, how to collect or what to spend?

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

But you're trying to rationalize it. You can't. I'm the same way with grading. For the life of me, I don't understand why someone cares about what someone else thinks about their card. It blows my mind. What makes someone submit a card to be graded? Are they really that ignorant of hobby standards that they can't look at a card and judge the condition for themselves that they need a 3rd party to do it for them? Do these same people seek advice about other things too? Do these same people need reassurance to tell them how pretty their wife is? How fine their home is? How nice their car is? If not, then why do they need someone to tell them the condition of their card? There's absolutely no difference in a buyer putting value in a PWCC sticker than there is some collector putting value in what some TPG says. Again, I'm with you, Peter. It doesn't make sense to me either. But rather than trying to make sense of it, I just go with it. Who am I to tell someone else what to collect, how to collect or what to spend?

Have you not seen the price differential between a 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan in a PSA 8, PSA 9 and PSA 10?

Seems like it would be pretty easy to understand why people spend the money to get a card graded. This isn't rocket science.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Have you not seen the price differential between a 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan in a PSA 8, PSA 9 and PSA 10?

Seems like it would be pretty easy to understand why people spend the money to get a card graded. This isn't rocket science.

Go crack out that same PSA 10 Jordan RC and try to sell it raw. Do you think it would sell for near the price it would as if it were still graded a 10? No way! Same card, nothing changed with the card itself. Now go have the card re-graded, but let's say it comes back a 9 this time. Does it have more value than it did when it was raw? Sure. Does it have the same value it did when it was a 10? No. Once again, same card, nothing's changed. So where is the value? Is it in the card or in the slab/flip? This isn't rocket science.

The only difference is it now has someone else's opinion assigned to it. So did grading the card add value to it, or did it add perceived value to it? If the card changes value based on the flip, then it's only perceived value. There's a difference. As someone in the financial industry, you do understand that, right? This is a hobby where many are building their collections strictly on perceived value. What happens to perceived value over time? I think even a first grader can figure that one out.

I'll build my collection on real value. You build your collection on perceived value. How about that?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'll build my collection on real value. You build your collection on perceived value. How about that?

But isn't your raw collection based on your own perceived value of it?

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by calvindog

But isn't your raw collection based on your own perceived value of it?

Of course it is.

I have five 1986 Panini Italian Mike Tyson PSA 9's that I self subbed and have less than $150 in each. Today they sell for over a grand. I will take my perceived value all day long vs. the alternative.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Go crack out that same PSA 10 Jordan RC and try to sell it raw. Do you think it would sell for near the price it would as if it were still graded a 10? No way! Same card, nothing changed with the card itself. Now go have the card re-graded, but let's say it comes back a 9 this time. Does it have more value than it did when it was raw? Sure. Does it have the same value it did when it was a 10? No. Once again, same card, nothing's changed. So where is the value? Is it in the card or in the slab/flip? This isn't rocket science.

The only difference is it now has someone else's opinion assigned to it. So did grading the card add value to it, or did it add perceived value to it? If the card changes value based on the flip, then it's only perceived value. There's a difference. As someone in the financial industry, you do understand that, right? This is a hobby where many are building their collections strictly on perceived value. What happens to perceived value over time? I think even a first grader can figure that one out.

I'll build my collection on real value. You build your collection on perceived value. How about that?

Dude you are out to pasture on this topic. Your disgust for the third party graders has clouded your judgment to a level that can't saved.

It doesn't matter if the card would sell for the same raw after being cracked out. No one is cracking out that card.

You are like the short seller that has been betting against Amazon since it was $200 saying the valuation is unsustainable.

None of us make the rules. The market does and the market has spoken and prices cards based on a grade that is plastered on top of a plastic holder. The Jordan in a PSA 10 has gone from $6,500 in 2009 to in some cases $30,000 today. The Jeter 1993 SP has gone from $6,500 to nearly a $100,000. It is what it is.

Trying to make some philosophical argument as to why people are stupid for wanting someone else to appraise the condition fully knowing that the capital investment can have exponential returns is laughable.

Thanks for the entertainment.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Dude you are out to pasture on this topic. Your disgust for the third party graders has clouded your judgment to a level that can't saved.

It doesn't matter if the card would sell for the same raw after being cracked out. No one is cracking out that card.

You are like the short seller that has been betting against Amazon since it was $200 saying the valuation is unsustainable.

None of us make the rules. The market does and the market has spoken and prices cards based on a grade that is plastered on top of a plastic holder. The Jordan in a PSA 10 has gone from $6,500 in 2009 to in some cases $30,000 today. The Jeter 1993 SP has gone from $6,500 to nearly a $100,000. It is what it is.

Trying to make some philosophical argument as to why people are stupid for wanting someone else to appraise the condition fully knowing that the capital investment can have exponential returns is laughable.

Thanks for the entertainment.

You're head is buried so far up PSA's butt that it's putting pressure on your brain and you can't think straight. Not everyone thinks like you. Not everyone cares about graded cards. There are many people on this board that crack out graded cards to enjoy raw in their personal collection. Yes, its true no matter how much you want to believe it or not. You're just a puppet of the grading industry. Time to cut the strings, dude.

I'll share a PM I received a few days ago. To protect the user's identity, I'll block out their personal information. In the PM, the buyer asked me to crack out a graded card before mailing it to them. I know that's hard for you to wrap your head around, but a lot of people don't care for graded cards.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation with someone who collects wrestling cards that probably doesn't even have 10 years in this hobby but wants to explain it all to me. No, that's entertainment.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You're head is buried so far up PSA's butt that it's putting pressure on your brain and you can't think straight. Not everyone thinks like you. Not everyone cares about graded cards. There are many people on this board that crack out graded cards to enjoy raw in their personal collection. Yes, its true no matter how much you want to believe it or not. You're just a puppet of the grading industry. Time to cut the strings, dude.

I'll share a PM I received a few days ago. To protect the user's identity, I'll block out their personal information. In the PM, the buyer asked me to crack out a graded card before mailing it to them. I know that's hard for you to wrap your head around, but a lot of people don't care for graded cards.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation with someone who collects wrestling cards that probably doesn't even have 10 years in this hobby but wants to explain it all to me. No, that's entertainment.

Actually I have 35 years in the hobby.

What I collect is irrelevant. My wrestling cards have probably on a percentage basis been the best pick during that ten year time frame you mention of anything. Everyone laughed and here we sit ten years later and the top cards from my sets continue to set record highs.

As for being a puppet. I have been called worse things. Either way the route I have chosen to take has paid off in spades.

You on the other hand call people stupid for attempting to increase the value of their cards and actually doing it. Think about that.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

But you're trying to rationalize it. You can't. I'm the same way with grading. For the life of me, I don't understand why someone cares about what someone else thinks about their card. It blows my mind. What makes someone submit a card to be graded? Are they really that ignorant of hobby standards that they can't look at a card and judge the condition for themselves that they need a 3rd party to do it for them? Do these same people seek advice about other things too? Do these same people need reassurance to tell them how pretty their wife is? How fine their home is? How nice their car is? If not, then why do they need someone to tell them the condition of their card? There's absolutely no difference in a buyer putting value in a PWCC sticker than there is some collector putting value in what some TPG says. Again, I'm with you, Peter. It doesn't make sense to me either. But rather than trying to make sense of it, I just go with it. Who am I to tell someone else what to collect, how to collect or what to spend?

I'm not sure but I suspect people send cards in for grading because the grading of the card increases the value exponentially. I don't believe submitters need reassurance, I think they need the card in a slab to maximize its resale value.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm not sure but I suspect people send cards in for grading because the grading of the card increases the value exponentially.

Fine, but can't the same thing be said about the silly PWCC sticker? So why the pointless thread?

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm not sure but I suspect people send cards in for grading because the grading of the card increases the value exponentially. I don't believe submitters need reassurance, I think they need the card in a slab to maximize its resale value.

I like many have taken a card I paid $2 for and invested $6 more and made it a $650 card.

If someone passed the first grade and can count it is pretty easy to figure out.

[Leon]

I have sent many cards in and then received the news they were altered. Alterations which I didn't catch. I remember a 1914 Boston Garter Speaker? that I bought and sent it into SGC. It came back altered; it had a slight touch up to it and I got a full refund. That particular authentication saved me 5 digits, probably. Oh, grading the cards increases their value too.
At the Texas Card Show I gave SGC a few things to grade. As the show went on I made multiple trips back to give them cards to add to the ones already submitted. I didn't do that to lose money.

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm not sure but I suspect people send cards in for grading because the grading of the card increases the value exponentially. I don't believe submitters need reassurance, I think they need the card in a slab to maximize its resale value.