PWCC listing of 1952 Mantle PSA 4.5 appears to be pressed

savedfrommyspokes · #1 05-06-2019, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's all very troubling, and they have turned their attention to vintage now, it's not just shiny inserts.

Glad that some of BO's members have been focusing their investigative skills into this, they have certainly done a commendable job...I wonder why more folks from this board have not jumped into this saga? My guess: this is definitely not the first situation such as this that this board has seen, and most every time the scandal peeks because of the light shined on it and then life returns to (a new) normal with the situation minimized only to appear again later in a slightly different form with a few different names mixed in. It is like playing a game of whack-a-mole.

While the members of BO have done great work calling attention to this situation and this effort is much appreciated, to me it seems their expectations for recourse in this situation may have been set too high. I fear that they may come out of this situation disappointed with the 'final" outcome.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 05-06-2019, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Glad that some of BO's members have been focusing their investigative skills into this, they have certainly done a commendable job...I wonder why more folks from this board have not jumped into this saga? My guess: this is definitely not the first situation such as this that this board has seen, and most every time the scandal peeks because of the light shined on it and then life returns to (a new) normal with the situation minimized only to appear again later in a slightly different form with a few different names mixed in. It is like playing a game of whack-a-mole.

While the members of BO have done great work calling attention to this situation and this effort is much appreciated, to me it seems their expectations for recourse in this situation may have been set too high. I fear that they may come out of this situation disappointed with the 'final" outcome.

Some truth to this. I admire the idealism of the BO guys but I think they may be overrating their own influence against the powers that be that have a huge interest in protecting the status quo and card values. I'd be satisfied with some diminishment of the freedom with which card doctors operate, I'm not looking to knock down windmills.

That said, I think part of the relative indifference here is that at least some people have drunk the Kool Aid.

HRBAKER · #3 05-06-2019, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Some truth to this. I admire the idealism of the BO guys but I think they may be overrating their own influence against the powers that be that have a huge interest in protecting the status quo and card values. I'd be satisfied with some diminishment of the freedom with which card doctors operate, I'm not looking to knock down windmills.

That said, I think part of the relative indifference here is that at least some people have drunk the Kool Aid.

Sometimes the level of vested interest affects objectivity as well.

Fuddjcal · #4 05-06-2019, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Glad that some of BO's members have been focusing their investigative skills into this, they have certainly done a commendable job...I wonder why more folks from this board have not jumped into this saga? My guess: this is definitely not the first situation such as this that this board has seen, and most every time the scandal peeks because of the light shined on it and then life returns to (a new) normal with the situation minimized only to appear again later in a slightly different form with a few different names mixed in. It is like playing a game of whack-a-mole.

While the members of BO have done great work calling attention to this situation and this effort is much appreciated, to me it seems their expectations for recourse in this situation may have been set too high. I fear that they may come out of this situation disappointed with the 'final" outcome.

I jumped in and have been outspoken about it.

I was going to try and buy that Mantle Card too.

Looking at another one in person today and THEN I'm OUT, just as fast as I was in.

. No it's not PSA, LOL but was re-holdered once

They do have high expectations at BO and should. That's a good they have hope. Like, I hope Santa Claus comes down the chimney Dec 25th. Nothing will happen but both companies will have their reputations further soiled.

We also know absolutely nothing will change and that PREWAR, "Mr. Conservation", will continue to send doctored cards into PSA and they will keep the scam going for him and his card doctoring I mean conservation crew, IMHO. Don't worry about that.

Like I said, I just want them to come clean, but this is doctoring for profit and is FRAUD & meant to deceive plain and simple. (IMHO) They won't & can't come clean any more than they already admitted on the BO thread that the card was Doctored. They will continue to deny, even though the evidence is overwhelming that they are complicit in the crime. I mean, they have to keep lying, sorta like Tony Podsada for 40 years a liar.

As good as they were for the card business, the Curt Shilling and Gaylord Perrying is really tiresome, bothersome and crooked. F PREWAR

Fastball · #5 05-06-2019, 12:40 PM

Wow, that looks very close to the 52 Mantle I regrettably sold a few years back. It was originally my dad's. You never know � Slide1.jpg

Mantle.jpg

Fastball · #6 05-06-2019, 12:51 PM

The resemblance of the OP card to this one is very close. (better pics).

savedfrommyspokes · #7 05-06-2019, 01:28 PM

So this card had been graded THREE separate times(that we know of)? I am getting very confused by the ownership of this card. Based on the timeline the BO OP provided, he must have viewed it raw after it was cracked out of cert #14016493.

Certification Number 14016493
Year 1952
Brand TOPPS
Sport BASEBALL CARDS
Card Number 311
Player MICKEY MANTLE
Grade VG-EX+ 4.5
3/28/2014 $36,410.43 Goodwin and Co. Auctions 5

Was the card somehow damaged during the removal from cert # 14016493? The images Ryan provided raw do not seem to match the images that the OP on BO provided. Any help with the timeline you can provide Ryan, would be helpful. I am assuming Ryan sold the card raw to whoever had it graded in the 14016493 holder. The cert #s beginning with "1401" appear to be from over 10 years ago as I have cert #s starting with 1401 in sets I completed in 2008, 2009.

And, if the same card, yet again another cert # NOT removed from the registry.

Edited to add: some of the small print marks on the back of the current 4.5 Mantle do not appear on the back of the card in the 14016493 card, my guess two separate cards.

MattyC · #8 05-06-2019, 01:35 PM

Hey Guys,

Get your facts straight.

The Goodwin card that was owned by Fastball's dad, who pulled it from a pack, is my card, has been since that sale, and resides in my collection.

The centering on mine, pictured above by others here, is not the same as as the current PWCC card, which as anyone with a good eye can see has tilt.

Nice try, though.

Thanks to the member here who just texted me to tell me; pretty telling way how bad info starts and gets spread.

MC

Peter_Spaeth · #9 05-06-2019, 01:45 PM

Yeah please let's be careful, one guy on BO was already taken to task for equating two Leafs that clearly were different cards. A lot of these cards have similar centering, but you really need much more to say they're the same card. Trying to get a tilted card by Matt is like trying to sneak a sunrise past a rooster, to adapt a phrase.

savedfrommyspokes · #10 05-06-2019, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC

Hey Guys,

Get your facts straight.

The Goodwin card that was owned by Fastball's dad, who pulled it from a pack, is my card, has been since that sale, and resides in my collection.

The centering on mine, pictured above by others here, is not the same as as the current PWCC card, which as anyone with a good eye can see has tilt.

Nice try, though.

Thanks to the member here who just texted me to tell me; pretty telling way how bad info starts and gets spread.

MC

Glad the resemblance is just a resemblance as Ryan mentioned, Minus the centering, several of the small print spots on the front are similar on both cards. However, the timeline was not adding up nor was the back. I apologize for involving your card.....BTW, very nice example.

GregC · #11 05-06-2019, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

So this card had been graded THREE separate times(that we know of)? I am getting very confused by the ownership of this card. Based on the timeline the BO OP provided, he must have viewed it raw after it was cracked out of cert #14016493.

Certification Number 14016493
Year 1952
Brand TOPPS
Sport BASEBALL CARDS
Card Number 311
Player MICKEY MANTLE
Grade VG-EX+ 4.5
3/28/2014 $36,410.43 Goodwin and Co. Auctions 5

Was the card somehow damaged during the removal from cert # 14016493? The images Ryan provided raw do not seem to match the images that the OP on BO provided. Any help with the timeline you can provide Ryan, would be helpful. I am assuming Ryan sold the card raw to whoever had it graded in the 14016493 holder. The cert #s beginning with "1401" appear to be from over 10 years ago as I have cert #s starting with 1401 in sets I completed in 2008, 2009.

And, if the same card, yet again another cert # NOT removed from the registry.

Edited to add: some of the small print marks on the back of the current 4.5 Mantle do not appear on the back of the card in the 14016493 card, my guess two separate cards.

Good edit, not a guess but more a fact. Let's all pump the brakes on posting every piece of armchair detective work as facts both here and on Blowout. Be certain before hitting submit post.

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