PSA/SGC guarantee; how long before revisions?

Peter_Spaeth · #1 06-01-2019, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuanip

I am answering the post, it was intentionally written as such to limit liability. So no change is needed from their perspective. I have made no direct opinion on a grade guarantee, which if you can tell from my posts, my belief is that it is far from it.

Again, tell me what you think a true grade guaranty would look like.
Let's see some language.
I am not seeing the limitation here.
I don't understand how it could be drafted so as to be broader.
Nobody is going to say, if you the owner don't agree with the grade just send it back for a refund.

swarmee · #2 06-01-2019, 04:39 PM

Nobody is going to say that "before and after pictures aren't evidence" either... or would they?

joshuanip · #3 06-01-2019, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Again, tell me what you think a true grade guaranty would look like.
Let's see some language.
I am not seeing the limitation here.
I don't understand how it could be drafted so as to be broader.
Nobody is going to say, if you the owner don't agree with the grade just send it back for a refund.

I think we�re getting off point. My point is that it�s not going to be revised because this is the best we�re going to get, which is not a guarantee.

A true guarantee would include transferable dispute resolution procedures that would involve a third party intermediary to determine resolution and equitable judgment. And have this guarantee bonded. But that would only work if a company doesn�t care about unlimited liability.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 06-01-2019, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuanip

I think we’re getting off point. My point is that it’s not going to be revised because this is the best we’re going to get, which is not a guarantee.

A true guarantee would include transferable dispute resolution procedures that would involve a third party intermediary to determine resolution and equitable judgment. And have this guarantee bonded. But that would only work if a company doesn’t care about unlimited liability.

OK, but one can always sue for breach whether or not the language provides for it. And if the breach is in bad faith one might even be able to claim unfair/deceptive trade practices.

PS companies who include those provisions in their standard form agreements usually do so in their own self interest to stay out of court.

joshuanip · #5 06-01-2019, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

OK, but one can always sue for breach whether or not the language provides for it. And if the breach is in bad faith one might even be able to claim unfair/deceptive trade practices.

PS companies who include those provisions usually do so in their own self interest to stay out of court.

I hope someone materially wronged would do this, but we are unfortunately attacked with death by a thousand cuts, which doesn�t justify the cost of civil litigation. I would really hope someone would and win, because I think that legal precedent is the only thing that would motivate them to change.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 06-01-2019, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuanip

I hope someone materially wronged would do this, but we are unfortunately attacked with death by a thousand cuts, which doesn’t justify the cost of civil litigation. I would really hope someone would and win, because I think that legal precedent is the only thing that would motivate them to change.

Some pretty high rollers could be affected by this, if PSA stiffs them with one of their "the graders stand by the grade" things it would not surprise me if they sued.

Bill77 · #7 06-01-2019, 05:06 PM

Another thing that I noticed is that both of those guarantees both state that the grading company will determine the fair market value for the cards, not you and not the market. Just another thing to keep in mind when bidding for cards in either of their holders would be just what are the cards worth to the TPGs if issues like this come up again in the future.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 06-01-2019, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill77

Another thing that I noticed is that both of those guarantees both state that the grading company will determine the fair market value for the cards, not you and not the market. Just another thing to keep in mind when bidding for cards in either of their holders would be just what are the cards worth to the TPGs if issues like this come up again in the future.

I am surprised they didn't just write it in such a way as to obligate them to make you whole by refunding your purchase price. With cards so far up from where some were purchased, they stand to take a bigger hit than necessary.

calvindog · #9 06-01-2019, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Some pretty high rollers could be affected by this, if PSA stiffs them with one of their "the graders stand by the grade" things it would not surprise me if they sued.

Here�s a guarantee: PSA is getting sued.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 06-01-2019, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Here�s a guarantee: PSA is getting sued.

doug.goodman · #11 06-02-2019, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuanip

A true guarantee would include transferable dispute resolution procedures that would involve a third party intermediary to determine resolution and equitable judgment. And have this guarantee bonded. But that would only work if a company doesn�t care about unlimited liability.

Or, if a company was confident in their own product...

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