New allegations on BO

pokerplyr80 · #1 06-02-2019, 02:17 PM

This revelation certainly explains the conservation vs alteration post. Assuming pwcc did buy cards that were sent to Moser, cleaned up, submitted to PSA, then resold on their site is that a crime? This would be also assuming that the cards were not trimmed, recolored, corners rebuilt, t206s rebacked, etc. That the only improvements were removing things from the cards that weren't originally there like stains, scrapbook residue, dirt, or creases and wrinkles.

I don't know the answer, and I do know what many on this board and in our hobby think of this practice. But is cleaning a card and selling without disclosing the improvement a crime?

swarmee · #2 06-02-2019, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

This revelation certainly explains the conservation vs alteration post. Assuming pwcc did buy cards that were sent to Moser, cleaned up, submitted to PSA, then resold on their site is that a crime? This would be also assuming that the cards were not trimmed, recolored, corners rebuilt, t206s rebacked, etc. That the only improvements were removing things from the cards that weren't originally there like stains, scrapbook residue, dirt, or creases and wrinkles.

I don't know the answer, and I do know what many on this board and in our hobby think of this practice. But is cleaning a card and selling without disclosing the improvement a crime?

Quoted for the future.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 06-02-2019, 02:30 PM

There is certainly a spectrum of alterations, but I think there is still a clear hobby consensus that taking out creases and using chemicals to clean -- without disclosing -- are not acceptable.
Anyhow it's moot here there is massive evidence many cards were trimmed and recolored.

topcat61 · #4 06-02-2019, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

This revelation certainly explains the conservation vs alteration post. Assuming pwcc did buy cards that were sent to Moser, cleaned up, submitted to PSA, then resold on their site is that a crime? This would be also assuming that the cards were not trimmed, recolored, corners rebuilt, t206s rebacked, etc. That the only improvements were removing things from the cards that weren't originally there like stains, scrapbook residue, dirt, or creases and wrinkles.

I don't know the answer, and I do know what many on this board and in our hobby think of this practice. But is cleaning a card and selling without disclosing the improvement a crime?

Hello! Technically, altering an item without telling the person before purchase can be fraud. Both Doug Allen and Bill Mastro were convicted and sentenced for it along with shill bidding. For now, PWCC is alleged to have, as it appears, shill bid only. Unless the FBI or the Oregon AG get involved and conduct a thorough forensic investigation of the cards and computers, PWCC doesn't have to respond to anyone. In fact they could make a case against those accusers if they wanted -and I only say that since it looks like they have 50-400 million reasons to do so. It is up to the individuals who believe they were targeted or swindled to open a complaint with law enforcement. In the meantime, keep collecting evidence, build up a case and bring it to court if it's warranted, but I recommend net54 not bringing up the word -fraud, instead using the word "alleged" will bolster your case if you all decide upon it.

I'm just trying to look out for my fellow collectors best interests on net54 is all.

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