Is low grade unaltered the new king ?

[DeanH3]

There very well could be a new emphasis on lower end cards that show honest wear and tear. I have always enjoyed those types of cards.

[benjulmag]

IMO the new king will be cards with provenance that date it to a period before cards had such value to make restoration profitable.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

IMO the new king will be cards with provenance that date it to a period before cards had such value to make restoration profitable.

And cards bought from PWCC have that provenance. While one isn't required to say where one bought a card, and most don't, a question is if it's ethical to sell a card and not disclose that it came from PWCC.

I do feel bad for the collectors, but must admit I'd smile if the PSA Registry is destroyed. I've had problems that thing for years, and have seen (and pointed out) a plethora of problems, including logical/mathenatical, with its ranking system. The ranking system was bad before the PWCC revelations came out. Not to suggest that many collectors themselves don't use it for honest collecting purposes or that there's anything wrong with having a place for collectors to register and show off their collections.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by drcy

And cards bought from PWCC have that provenance.

That's a fair point, which makes provenance unfortunately less reliable unless purchased directly from the original owner and that person was known to you to be of such character as to not alter cards.

Where the provenance still would retain value to me as a 19th century collector pertains not so much as to the issue of alteration but to the issue of authenticity. If a rare card popped up out of nowhere and proof of its existence goes back only to a period when such a card already had a great value, I would be very nervous having confidence the card was real, at least not before undertaking some serious forensic analysis (that goes well beyond what any current TPG could provide).

[glchen]

The new king will be absolute rarity. It won't matter too much if a card is altered if there are only three total known.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by glchen

The new king will be absolute rarity. It won't matter too much if a card is altered if there are only three total known.

This.

[Leon]

And of course I will have sold too soon as usual.

And I think the new king could also be, as Corey mentioned, provenance. Such as would be the case of cards in packs and other identifying information. If I recall when these were sent to me they were all (20) in this pack. They all measured exactly the same too. It was like buttah, I tell ya'.

Originally Posted by glchen

The new king will be absolute rarity. It won't matter too much if a card is altered if there are only three total known.

[obcmac]

I hope this is the future...my years of buying the lowest grade cards I could find will finally pay off. I have always thought 100 year old cards should look like 100 year old cards. I also hope scarcity becomes more relevant than relative scarcity...I had the only know copy of a card...and kept getting low offers because of condition... it's one of one...why would condition matter? With all the bs going on I have never felt better collecting beaters and ignoring higher grades and autos.

Mac

[drcy]

Originally Posted by glchen

The new king will be absolute rarity. It won't matter too much if a card is altered if there are only three total known.

Agree. The rarity of being the highest graded 1991 Donruss will no longer retain quite the same appeal

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by glchen

The new king will be absolute rarity. It won't matter too much if a card is altered if there are only three total known.

this has mostly been my mantra...rarity trumps condition. But of course, I've gotten suckered into the "condition matters" for some of my post-war collecting interests.

I'm hoping this is the trend, but I think, for the most part, everyone is going to take a hit due to this scandal, even the low-grade collectors. The good will get tossed in with the bad and the low-condition cards will take a hit. I do think the ridiculous spread between a graded 6 and 10 will likely narrow considerably!

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

this has mostly been my mantra...rarity trumps condition. But of course, I've gotten suckered into the "condition matters" for some of my post-war collecting interests.

I'm hoping this is the trend, but I think, for the most part, everyone is going to take a hit due to this scandal, even the low-grade collectors. The good will get tossed in with the bad and the low-condition cards will take a hit. I do think the ridiculous spread between a graded 6 and 10 will likely narrow considerably!

Low grade cards are not exempt from the tampering, unfortunately.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by glchen

The new king will be absolute rarity. It won't matter too much if a card is altered if there are only three total known.

True, but PSA and Beckett have both proven many times over that they are not able to correctly identify rare cards.

[aconte]

Originally Posted by glchen

The new king will be absolute rarity. It won't matter too much if a card is altered if there are only three total known.

Only if people want the card. Plenty of rare cards/issues that don't sell as
well as mainstream issues and players. That won't change.

[Copa7]

I agree with the sentiment of collecting for historical and for the shear pleasure. I'm not against making a buck, but maybe the pendulum can swing back to purists and not over priced greed.

The story of where a card has been is as important, if not greater, than its dollar value to me.

Ironically, these third party sellers and graders have marred exactly what they set out to prevent.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

IMO the new king will be cards with provenance that date it to a period before cards had such value to make restoration profitable.

That would be the ideal for well educated, high-end collectors. But that scenario assumes that law enforcement is able to come down on the "criminals" and on PSA. That scenario can't happen unless a majority of collectors become aware of the magnitude of this fraud. Currently (and unfortunately), we are a comparatively small group.

The current mentality is the polar opposite of this, and does not take provenance into account whatsoever. The flip is all that matters to the masses.