CLCT stock down 9.13% today

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Scott L.

Do the folks openly wishing for the demise of PSA & CLCT not own any PSA graded cards? Do they care that many people on this board could be materially affected by that outcome? Some of those people whom they would proabbly consider a friend.

Seems like a curious stance to me.

I am wishing less for the demise of PSA and more for the rise of a TPG that can restore confidence to a market that has been undone by the internet, which ironically fueled the fire for so long. This is the first time in the hobby's history that before and after pics are so prevalent. It is what exposed the signed T206 scandal, and it is what is exposing all of this awful tampering.

Even though I have dozens of autographed pre-war cards, I say shine the light on the fraud. Let's get this mess cleaned up and do things the right way. I don't have a viable solution, but that doesn't mean I want to live with the problem.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am sure many people are evaluating whether to sell or reduce. Including me. It's really sad that it's reached this point, but so it goes. Thanks to all the perpetrators, much appreciated. Good for the hobby indeed.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am sure many people are evaluating whether to sell or reduce. Including me. It's really sad that it's reached this point, but so it goes. Thanks to all the perpetrators, much appreciated. Good for the hobby indeed.

I've just narrowed my purchasing substantially. I was picking up some unsigned cards for awhile, but want to shift my focus towards raw or low grade items. Going forward, I'll be searching histories of cards online before putting down any meaningful money. But the 20+ years I've been picking up the occasional PSA 5 or SGC 60 T206 card on a whim? Not again until there's a better mousetrap.

[aconte]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I've just narrowed my purchasing substantially. I was picking up some unsigned cards for awhile, but want to shift my focus towards raw or low grade items. Going forward, I'll be searching histories of cards online before putting down any meaningful money. But the 20+ years I've been picking up the occasional PSA 5 or SGC 60 T206 card on a whim? Not again until there's a better mousetrap.

That's where I'm at too now!

I am sure many people are evaluating whether to sell or reduce. Including me. It's really sad that it's reached this point, but so it goes. Thanks to all the perpetrators, much appreciated. Good for the hobby indeed.

Aint that the truth. This one really hurt. I've been dodging this stuff since
2002 or so in this format. The grading skills are just not there. The crooks
are just relentless and won't go away. I'm down to buying cheapo cards
from now on just to have some fun from time to time. It's over Johnny!

[aconte]

I'd like to hear from all those in the business including auction houses,
full time card dealers, and others why should anyone continue to drop
serious coin in this hobby? The statements made by the so called hobby
leaders have been pathetic the last day or so.

Do the dealers and auction houses care about their customers to hope
for change or are you hopeful this shit just goes away and if the damage
is we lose a couple collectors no biggie?

[aconte]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I've just narrowed my purchasing substantially. I was picking up some unsigned cards for awhile, but want to shift my focus towards raw or low grade items. Going forward, I'll be searching histories of cards online before putting down any meaningful money. But the 20+ years I've been picking up the occasional PSA 5 or SGC 60 T206 card on a whim? Not again until there's a better mousetrap.

That's where I'm at too now!

I am sure many people are evaluating whether to sell or reduce. Including me. It's really sad that it's reached this point, but so it goes. Thanks to all the perpetrators, much appreciated. Good for the hobby indeed.

Aint that the truth. This one really hurt. I've been dodging this stuff since
2002 or so in this format. The grading skills are just not there. The crooks
are just relentless and won't go away. I'm down to buying cheapo cards
from now on just to have some fun from time to time. It's over Johnny!

[RiceBondsMntna2Young]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I've just narrowed my purchasing substantially. I was picking up some unsigned cards for awhile, but want to shift my focus towards raw or low grade items. Going forward, I'll be searching histories of cards online before putting down any meaningful money. But the 20+ years I've been picking up the occasional PSA 5 or SGC 60 T206 card on a whim? Not again until there's a better mousetrap.

I'm not sure I've seen much discussion about the bleakest outcome. What if it's proven - statistically or otherwise - that a massive majority of PSA 4+ vintage in circulation has been recently doctored? While the remainder will merely exist under a cloud of suspicion? Add all that to the conflict of interest any owner of a slabbed card has right now?

Even after Huigens & Co are given their last rites, PWCC’s toxic tenets may survive him. We may find ourselves in a landscape where we adjust to a new normal and take alterations as they are. Because otherwise, we're just going to have a massive mish mosh of Authentic, to varying degrees of eye appeal.

[Exhibitman]

I wouldn't mind seeing TPGs crash and burn as a whole, or at least have their influence over the financial fortunes of collectors greatly diminished.

I hope this scandal convinces the great mass of collectors that TPGs are unnecessary to their collecting and that they would be much happier if they weren't chasing plastic cases and getting all bunged up over what number some jackhole slaps on the score sheet.

I hope there will be and end to my having to spend the money and time to get cards graded for sale so that the average buyer won't think there is something wrong with the card, when I damned well know that there is something wrong with so many slabbed cards.

I hope that one day I won't have to store and ship these stupid f***ing plastic tombstones.

[Scott L.]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I am wishing less for the demise of PSA and more for the rise of a TPG that can restore confidence to a market that has been undone by the internet, which ironically fueled the fire for so long. This is the first time in the hobby's history that before and after pics are so prevalent. It is what exposed the signed T206 scandal, and it is what is exposing all of this awful tampering.

Even though I have dozens of autographed pre-war cards, I say shine the light on the fraud. Let's get this mess cleaned up and do things the right way. I don't have a viable solution, but that doesn't mean I want to live with the problem.

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. It would be interesting to see what a new TPG would look like. It certainly couldn’t operate to the massive scale of PSA and expected to be effective.

Market up big today and CLCT down around 3%.

[steve B]

I believe PSA will survive, with a few ifs
If they aren't complicit at the management level.
And if they manage to get it together enough to restore confidence.

The Philatelic Foundation, which has an excellent reputation went through a similar scandal in the mid 80's, and actually has someone on the inside involved. They did a lot of work to rebuild confidence, and it took quite some time. At the time, they didn't grade, just authenticated.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...069-story.html

At the moment, all three companies have had what are pretty major issues. They'll all need to address that in one way or another.
SGC has abandoned doing autographs, probably the right move.
What PSA will do about so many altered cards getting through, or what Beckett will do about a former employee getting what appears to be favorable treatment, we'll have to wait for.

[sportscardtheory]

I find it strange, the people downplaying and minimizing this situation. A card in a PSA or BGS slab is supposed to PROTECT us from fraud, not CONCEAL fraud. They have literally failed at the most basic level of their business' mission statements. They have essentially destroyed all faith in their "product", but it's gonna pass over and people are gonna forget? Okay. They sell peace of mind. Well, nice job. EVERY PSA/BGS graded card is suspect now.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I find it strange, the people downplaying and minimizing this situation. A card in a PSA or BGS slab is supposed to PROTECT us from fraud, not CONCEAL fraud. They have literally failed at the most basic level of their business' mission statements. They have essentially destroyed all faith in their "product", but it's gonna pass over and people are gonna forget? Okay. They sell peace of mind. Well, nice job. EVERY PSA/BGS graded card is suspect now.

yup!

[robkas68]

I understand the anger, but letting it burn is not exactly an answer. Yes, everybody feels better if a couple people go to jail, but let’s face it that there are a lot of innocent people that are hurt by this. On a smaller scale, it is no different than the housing crisis. A bunch of people did a bunch of terrible things that created a bubble and the crash, but they were not the ones that paid. Yes, a couple people went to jail, but not many.

I never bought a house I couldn’t afford or speculated on real estate, but when I sold my single family middle class home in Florida because I took a new job, I lost 95k. I am fortunate enough that 95k didn’t effect my ability to feed my family but some people lost everything (and they were not the speculators).

When I suggest we start a trade association I understand the hurdles involved, time, money, acceptance, etc. This scandal only brought to light what we already sort of knew, that there are not a lot of controls to help keep it clean. That doesn’t mean it will be completely clean... the stock market isn’t despite the SEC. However, it is clean enough that people still view it as legitimate despite a history of scandals that still dwarf anything PWCC has ever done. Since the hobby will never be important enough to warrant the federal baseball card exchange commission, it is pretty much up to us.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by robkas68

I understand the anger, but letting it burn is not exactly an answer. Yes, everybody feels better if a couple people go to jail, but let’s face it that there are a lot of innocent people that are hurt by this. On a smaller scale, it is no different than the housing crisis. A bunch of people did a bunch of terrible things that created a bubble and the crash, but they were not the ones that paid. Yes, a couple people went to jail, but not many.

I never bought a house I couldn’t afford or speculated on real estate, but when I sold my single family middle class home in Florida because I took a new job, I lost 95k. I am fortunate enough that 95k didn’t effect my ability to feed my family but some people lost everything (and they were not the speculators).

When I suggest we start a trade association I understand the hurdles involved, time, money, acceptance, etc. This scandal only brought to light what we already sort of knew, that there are not a lot of controls to help keep it clean. That doesn’t mean it will be completely clean... the stock market isn’t despite the SEC. However, it is clean enough that people still view it as legitimate despite a history of scandals that still dwarf anything PWCC has ever done. Since the hobby will never be important enough to warrant the federal baseball card exchange commission, it is pretty much up to us.

I am sure people will listen if you have a specific proposal, do you have one?

[robkas68]

Sure, I have some ideas. Getting on a plane, but I will throw some things out on this forum.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by robkas68

Sure, I have some ideas. Getting on a plane, but I will throw some things out on this forum.

Look forward to it.

[Fballguy]

Why would any TPG that can't detect an altered card even be allowed to exist?

If you can't provide the service you're supposedly an expert at, why do we need you?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Why would any TPG that can't detect an altered card even be allowed to exist?

If you can't provide the service you're supposedly an expert at, why do we need you?

Maybe we would see a need for them if they'd get off their ass and issue a statement. Right now their lawyers are likely conjuring up some canned meaningless response, while the jury is out....

50% chance it's simple ineptitude
50% chance it's favorable treatment to preferred customers

Can't be much of anything else. Here's a novel idea... Just provide a truthful explanation. Otherwise they should indeed cease to exist.