PSA Response from President Steve Sloan

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

I 100% agree that if this became a legal issue for PSA they wound most definitely fight not to turn over anything.

And if PSA can be attached to this then what about eBay? They haven’t shut off or temporarily suspended PWCC yet despite what has been reported. Shouldn’t they also be responsible for making sure that their platform is not being used to commit crimes?

PSA is getting paid to grade cards and is failing miserably to catch these issues. They have a guarantee that needs to be upheld. eBay is just the facilitator of the transactions and I suspect that if anyone accused would have their auctions shut down there would be a lot less for sale there. In time I imagine they will deal with PWCC depending on where this goes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I continue to be puzzed by Sloan's (probably from JO really) statement that only if the seller is unknown should someone send in cards for review.

One, it seems inconsistent with the plain terms of the guarantee.
Two, how often is the seller "unknown"?

[70ToppsFanatic]

Failing miserably? On what evidence is that opinion based?

Some message board detectives seem to have shown evidence that possibly as many as 1000 cards have made it into PSA holders illegitimately. They’ve authenticated more than 30M items. THREE THOUSANDTHS OF ONE PERCENT is better than 99.99% right based on the evidence available so far.

While i too believe there is more to be uncovered I think it is premature, and potentially libelous, to make such a general sweeping statement before there is evidence to support it.

Let’s not get in front of our headlights.

[Peter_Spaeth]

IMO most will never be uncovered by these methods. This is just focused on one seller and one individual dealer for a few years. Because there is a paper (internet) trail given the nature of the relationship. Do you think he is the only individual good at altering cards? Do you think PWCC is the only seller who has sold altered cards? Do you think this is a recent phenomenon?

I would kill to see their submission records.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IMO most will never be uncovered by these methods. This is just focused on one seller and one individual dealer for a few years. Because there is a paper (internet) trail. Do you think he is the only individual good at altering cards? Do you think PWCC is the only seller who has sold altered cards? Do you think this is a recent phenomenon?

so true. there are probably 100,000 cards or more, IMHO still a good ratio for PSA. But isn't this what we pay them for? The grade is secondary. I just want to know they are not altered and they can't tell either or they are scamming with guys like Brent Mastro, which is a distinct possibility.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

so true. there are probably 100,000 cards or more, IMHO still a good ratio for PSA. But isn't this what we pay them for? The grade is secondary. I just want to know they are not altered and they can't tell either or they are scamming with guys like Brent Mastro, which is a distinct possibility.

Professional Sports AUTHENTICATOR. Indeed.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IMO most will never be uncovered by these methods. This is just focused on one seller and one individual dealer for a few years. Because there is a paper (internet) trail given the nature of the relationship. Do you think he is the only individual good at altering cards? Do you think PWCC is the only seller who has sold altered cards? Do you think this is a recent phenomenon?

I would kill to see their submission records.

Exactly. This is far beyond Moser and Brent but they are a good start. And even if it’s only a thousand cards or a few thousand or whatever found to be missed, PSA has a guarantee that needs to be upheld. Doing some quick math it seems their exposure will go well past the 800K they are holding in reserve.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Exactly. This is far beyond Moser and Brent but they are a good start. And even if it’s only a thousand cards or a few thousand or whatever found to be missed, PSA has a guarantee that needs to be upheld. Doing some quick math it seems their exposure will go well past the 800K they are holding in reserve.

As I see it, if PSA was confident this was a limited problem, they should have no objection to releasing their submission records.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Parenthetically I wonder if PSA or Beckett has any clue what it does to the stress level of any collector who has put what for him/her is a meaningful sum of money into cards, to see card after card after card exposed as altered, and to see a major seller who most of us have bought from exposed as an outlet for a card doctor? That statement from Sloan suggests complete indifference, to me anyhow.

Even people who don't care about alteration surely are concerned with the value of their cards. And people who care about alteration are beside themselves, that I have talked to. This also is raising the stress level of every honest dealer.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Parenthetically I wonder if PSA or Beckett has any clue what it does to the stress level of any collector who has put what for him/her is a meaningful sum of money into cards, to see card after card after card exposed as altered, and to see a major seller who most of us have bought from exposed as an outlet for a card doctor? That statement from Sloan suggests complete indifference, to me anyhow.

Even people who don't care about alteration surely are concerned with the value of their cards. And people who care about alteration are beside themselves, that I have talked to. This also is raising the stress level of every honest dealer.

I think you can tell from my posts how I feel about it after spending 75K the past year. I don't care what happens to the value as 3/4 of them are PSA. The truth will always trump everything for me personally. I won't buy another card until BM (no, not Bowl Movement), Brent Mastro goes to jail and PSA sues him.

[70ToppsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Parenthetically I wonder if PSA or Beckett has any clue what it does to the stress level of any collector who has put what for him/her is a meaningful sum of money into cards, to see card after card after card exposed as altered, and to see a major seller who most of us have bought from exposed as an outlet for a card doctor? That statement from Sloan suggests complete indifference, to me anyhow.

Even people who don't care about alteration surely are concerned with the value of their cards. And people who care about alteration are beside themselves, that I have talked to. This also is raising the stress level of every honest dealer.

And that is EXACTLY why PSA is taking the position they are taking. To minimize the value hit on what is in circulation now so that the damage to collectors and to their brand is minimized.

Once all of the outed cards are taken care of the rest is conjecture as far as the majority of the hobby is concerned. Anything that remains in a PSA slab is assumed to be good until proven otherwise. By keeping the submission records private PSA minimizes the chance that someone with a non-outed slab that may be tainted actually submits it for a guarantee review. It’s worked for them this way before. And as I said earlier, as long as they are being legitimate when they do a guarantee review and not just rubber stamping it as good to avoid honoring the guarantee they will be in the clear legally.

Realistically there are always going to be some slabbed cards that are illegitimate from all TPGs. You will never be able to root them all out. Without the submission, sales records and photos I doubt many of the non-outed ones will ever be discovered. Providing that information to the public is not in their interests. One could also argue that it would also be contrary to the interests of those with a substantial amount of money already tied up in slabbed cards. Bottom line is don’t hold your breath waiting to get that info officially.

The real questions are

A) what can be done to minimize the ability of additional “re-works” from getting into slabs going forward?

B) will those who are caught trying to cheat be sufficiently punished so that others are deterred from trying to do the same?

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As I see it, if PSA was confident this was a limited problem, they should have no objection to releasing their submission records.

But we know they are going to resist and hope this all goes away quietly with them only refunding a few squeaky wheels. This time I believe it is going to be different though. Assuming what we are hearing from BO is true, there has been a blatant disregard by PSA in many of the procedures we rely upon when paying money to them to authenticate cards. And they need to be held accountable and honor their guarantee whether it was negligence on their part, getting duped by some fraudsters or whatever. Their guarantee is pretty clear to me as well as the lawyers I have spoken to. In no way does it say go back to whomever you purchased it from for recourse. And it doesn’t say if someone is intentionally deceiving them then they won’t honor it. I suspect regardless of where this heads, the guarantee will soon be reworded.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

But we know they are going to resist and hope this all goes away quietly with them only refunding a few squeaky wheels. This time I believe it is going to be different though. Assuming what we are hearing from BO is true, there has been a blatant disregard by PSA in many of the procedures we rely upon when paying money to them to authenticate cards. And they need to be held accountable and honor their guarantee whether it was negligence on their part, getting duped by some fraudsters or whatever. Their guarantee is pretty clear to me as well as the lawyers I have spoken to. In no way does it say go back to whomever you purchased it from for recourse. And it doesn’t say if someone is intentionally deceiving them then they won’t honor it. I suspect regardless of where this heads, the guarantee will soon be reworded.

If someone deceived THEM, they would have a claim over under the submission agreement, like an insurer would against the party at fault, but in no way does it affect the guarantee as I read it.

[Goudey77]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Exactly. This is far beyond Moser and Brent but they are a good start. And even if it’s only a thousand cards or a few thousand or whatever found to be missed, PSA has a guarantee that needs to be upheld. Doing some quick math it seems their exposure will go well past the 800K they are holding in reserve.

If anyone truly believes PSA will guarantee all these cards you are being grossly misled. I have several contacts with first hand experience both good and bad. Some with the exact same scenarios being played out here and the results are not "guaranteed". I am afraid many will be told to go pound sand. Good thing PSA sits near Newport Beach.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

If anyone truly believes PSA will guarantee all these cards you are being grossly misled. I have several contacts with first hand experience both good and bad. Some with the exact same scenarios being played out here and the results are not "guaranteed". I am afraid many will be told to go pound sand. Good thing PSA sits near Newport Beach.

And Martin that’s why we have high priced lawyers in this country.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

And Martin that’s why we have high priced lawyers in this country.

And here and there even a few good ones.

[SMPEP]

I see the court room now ...


Card Collector: PSA - Did you grade huge amounts of altered baseball cards?!


Judge: You don't have to answer that question!


PSA: I'll answer the question. You want answers?


Card Collector: I think I'm entitled to them.


PSA: You want answers?!


Card Collector: I want the truth!


PSA: You can't handle the truth!


Son, we live in a world that has baseball cards, and those cards have to be graded by men with plastic cases. Who's gonna do it? You, SGC? You, BGS? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for card collectors, and you curse PSA. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that card investor's financial loses, while substantial, probably were lessened; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves money.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me grading that baseball card -- you need me grading that baseball card.

We use words like "alteration," "conservation," and "authenticity." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent grading baseball cards. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very grading services that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a loupe and grade your own cards. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!


Card Collector: Did you grade huge amounts of altered baseball cards?!


PSA: I did the job--


Card Collector: -- Did you grade huge amounts of altered baseball cards?!


PSA: YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I DID!!!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

Failing miserably? On what evidence is that opinion based?

Some message board detectives seem to have shown evidence that possibly as many as 1000 cards have made it into PSA holders illegitimately. They’ve authenticated more than 30M items. THREE THOUSANDTHS OF ONE PERCENT is better than 99.99% right based on the evidence available so far.

While i too believe there is more to be uncovered I think it is premature, and potentially libelous, to make such a general sweeping statement before there is evidence to support it.

Let’s not get in front of our headlights.

To claim that only 1,000 bad cards have made it into PSA Holders is a ridiculous understatement. It takes a ton of work and research to positively expose just one single card. For every one that is exposed, you can figure there are about 10 that get by unscathed. The fact is nobody will ever know how many bogus cards are circulating in various collections, now that the cat is out of the bag.

So the "THREE THOUSANDTHS OF ONE PERCENT" claim is completely baseless.

You can really tell from these posts who cares about the integrity of the hobby, and who is motivated by money. I urge anyone here who truly cares about the hobby to boycott PSA and stop sending them submissions. They'll likely not make good on their supposed "guarantee", so this is one of very few meaningful actions we can take to instigate change.

[70ToppsFanatic]

Originally Posted by perezfan

To claim that only 1,000 bad cards have made it into PSA Holders is a ridiculous understatement. It takes a ton of work and research to positively expose just one single card. For every one that is exposed, you can figure there are about 10 that get by unscathed. The fact is nobody will ever know how many bogus cards are circulating in various collections, now that the cat is out of the bag.

So the "THREE THOUSANDTHS OF ONE PERCENT" claim is completely baseless.

You can really tell from these posts who cares about the integrity of the hobby, and who is motivated by money. I urge anyone here who truly cares about the hobby to boycott PSA and stop sending them submissions. They'll likely not make good on their supposed "guarantee", so this is one of very few meaningful actions we can take to instigate change.

Selectively quoting me does not make your mob mentality valid.

“3/1000ths of a percent SO FAR!”

“I too believe there is more to be uncovered...”

This is still America people. Remember innocent until proven guilty?


From what has been discovered it appears that PWCC was somehow involved in some unethical and possibly illegal things with some know scams artists. It also appears that they managed to slip some things through PSA and other TPGs.

And here you are, part of a mob that is spouting off all sorts of wild ideas about PSA being complicit in this, PSA is going to weasel out of its guarantee, and other generally unflattering conspiracy theories without any real evidence to substantiate it.

PSA is doing what just about any other publicly traded corporation does when an apparent primary product/service failure has occurred; trying to weed out what of that which has come out is indeed true and what is not, trying to identify what risks exist for the company as a result of it, trying to identify other parties that could potentially be held accountable, trying to minimize the damages to the company, trying to reassure customers, etc.

It may ultimately be proven that there are 100,000 tainted items, but right now there isn’t any evidence to back that up. There is evidence that has been developed that suggests about 1,000 so far. Are 1000 too many? Yes, but it’s far from the epidemic level that the mob is currently panicking about.

For someone who claims to be so concerned about integrity you certainly don’t seem to be very worried about the integrity and fairness of passing judgment on people like myself, and PSA for that matter, without proper basis in fact.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

Selectively quoting me does not make your mob mentality valid.

“3/1000ths of a percent SO FAR!”

“I too believe there is more to be uncovered...”

This is still America people. Remember innocent until proven guilty?


From what has been discovered it appears that PWCC was somehow involved in some unethical and possibly illegal things with some know scams artists. It also appears that they managed to slip some things through PSA and other TPGs.

And here you are, part of a mob that is spouting off all sorts of wild ideas about PSA being complicit in this, PSA is going to weasel out of its guarantee, and other generally unflattering conspiracy theories without any real evidence to substantiate it.

PSA is doing what just about any other publicly traded corporation does when an apparent primary product/service failure has occurred; trying to weed out what of that which has come out is indeed true and what is not, trying to identify what risks exist for the company as a result of it, trying to identify other parties that could potentially be held accountable, trying to minimize the damages to the company, trying to reassure customers, etc.

It may ultimately be proven that there are 100,000 tainted items, but right now there isn’t any evidence to back that up. There is evidence that has been developed that suggests about 1,000 so far. Are 1000 too many? Yes, but it’s far from the epidemic level that the mob is currently panicking about.

For someone who claims to be so concerned about integrity you certainly don’t seem to be very worried about the integrity and fairness of passing judgment on people like myself, and PSA for that matter, without proper basis in fact.

IMO telling people to return the card to the seller, and only to go to PSA if the seller is unknown whatever that means, is not appropriate. The guarantee does not require exhaustion of remedies. The whole point was that PSA stands behind marketplace transactions, to inspire confidence.

[70ToppsFanatic]

But in this case they already have a prior statement from PWCC saying that they will handle it for any cards they brokered. What we don’t know is what, if anything, PSA may have said to PWCC that PSA would do unless PWCC made this offer. We also don’t know that ifbthis offer for PWCC is a result of some conversation. Between PWCC and PSA, whether as part of it PWCC is required to turn over any cards they redeem to PSA to prevent cracking and resubbing them or selling them raw to unsuspecting people.

PSA is part of a publicly traded company. They have shareholders to protect. Why shouldn’t they take advantage of what PWCC is offering to do so? They also said that the guarantee review was an option as well. I don’t see them rejecting to do reviews. I see them trying to minimize the number of reviews they need to do.

I have plenty of gripes about PSA, but I really don’t see their early attempts to minimize their liability as anything other than normal corporate behavior.

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IMO telling people to return the card to the seller, and only to go to PSA if the seller is unknown whatever that means, is not appropriate. The guarantee does not require exhaustion of remedies. The whole point was that PSA stands behind marketplace transactions, to inspire confidence.

If you have a recall on a vehicle or basically any other product, don't you typically take it back to the place where you bought it? I mean, I don't see cars lined up at the actual plant looking to get fixed. Might be a stretch, but kind of how I see it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

If you have a recall on a vehicle or basically any other product, don't you typically take it back to the place where you bought it? I mean, I don't see cars lined up at the actual plant looking to get fixed. Might be a stretch, but kind of how I see it.

That's because the dealer is designated by the warranty to take the return. The dealer is a representative of the manufacturer. The PSA guarantee does not say anything about gong to the seller first or designate the seller as an agent.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

If you have a recall on a vehicle or basically any other product, don't you typically take it back to the place where you bought it? I mean, I don't see cars lined up at the actual plant looking to get fixed. Might be a stretch, but kind of how I see it.

No. Not always. I own a Nissan Titan. I bought it used from Ford franchise dealership. When my Titan did have a recall, I didn't take it back to the Ford dealership, I took it to the Nissan dealership. The warranty it through Nissan, not Ford.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

Selectively quoting me does not make your mob mentality valid.

“3/1000ths of a percent SO FAR!”

“I too believe there is more to be uncovered...”

This is still America people. Remember innocent until proven guilty?


From what has been discovered it appears that PWCC was somehow involved in some unethical and possibly illegal things with some know scams artists. It also appears that they managed to slip some things through PSA and other TPGs.

And here you are, part of a mob that is spouting off all sorts of wild ideas about PSA being complicit in this, PSA is going to weasel out of its guarantee, and other generally unflattering conspiracy theories without any real evidence to substantiate it.

PSA is doing what just about any other publicly traded corporation does when an apparent primary product/service failure has occurred; trying to weed out what of that which has come out is indeed true and what is not, trying to identify what risks exist for the company as a result of it, trying to identify other parties that could potentially be held accountable, trying to minimize the damages to the company, trying to reassure customers, etc.

It may ultimately be proven that there are 100,000 tainted items, but right now there isn’t any evidence to back that up. There is evidence that has been developed that suggests about 1,000 so far. Are 1000 too many? Yes, but it’s far from the epidemic level that the mob is currently panicking about.

For someone who claims to be so concerned about integrity you certainly don’t seem to be very worried about the integrity and fairness of passing judgment on people like myself, and PSA for that matter, without proper basis in fact.

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and although I don't agree, I do respect it. People collect for different reasons... some for profit, and others for the love of the hobby. I suppose I'm one of the voices for the latter.

Not part of a mob... just someone who does not want to see the collectors get burned. PSA/Sloan's Letter directly states that the affected collectors should go to the SELLER (not PSA) for refunds. PWCC has already demonstrated that they intend to make this process very cumbersome and difficult. And thus, it is the collector who is screwed.

So while we are apparently miles apart on this, we can still have a good conversation. I don't want to see Collectors take the hit for this, and do want PSA to live up to its long-stated guarantee. Otherwise, it's all just meaningless lip service.

[70ToppsFanatic]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and although I don't agree, I do respect it. People collect for different reasons... some for profit, and others for the love of the hobby. I suppose I'm one of the voices for the latter.

Not part of a mob... just someone who does not want to see the collectors get burned. PSA/Sloan's Letter directly states that the affected collectors should go to the SELLER (not PSA) for refunds. PWCC has already demonstrated that they intend to make this process very cumbersome and difficult. And thus, it is the collector who is screwed.

So while we are apparently miles apart on this, we can still have a good conversation. I don't want to see Collectors take the hit for this, and do want PSA to live up to its long-stated guarantee. Otherwise, it's all just meaningless lip service.

I don’t think we are miles apart at all. We both want integrity. Neither of us want to see innocent collectors take a hit on this. But innocent collectors could take a hit in a number of ways. Beyond the affected cards themselves, the whole hobby could take a major hit if psa’s credibility were undeservedly and excessively undermined. Driving PSA into financial instability or insolvency could also cause a hit to innocent collectors.

I read Steve Sloan’s statement and I see a corporate executive trying to leverage what resources he has to protect the company during the early stage of a potential problem. This thing has a long way to go and could play out in many unexpected ways. Unless they have fools as attorneys I can’t believe that PSA would do anything with respect to their guarantee that contradicts what is written in their guarantee.

PWCC has admitted some responsibility for the current situation and has made a public statement saying they will do all that they can to make things right. It is not unreasonable for PSA to try and use that to their advantage, especially if PWCC is actually mixed up directly in it.

I see nothing in the PSA statement that says they won’t do a guarantee review if one is requested. And I think there are plenty of times in all of our lives that we’ve purchased something that had an issue and our first call was tonthe party we purchased it from, not immediately to the party that provides the warrantee.

Within the above contexts Sloan’s statement does not strike me as so far out of the norm.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How many years later is it legitimate to go back to an innocent seller?

What is an "unknown" seller and why did Sloan limit the guarantee to that?

I think you are being too kind here. Way too kind. Sloan should be manning up not looking to say we're your court of last resort.

THEY graded the cards not the sellers.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

Failing miserably? On what evidence is that opinion based?

Some message board detectives seem to have shown evidence that possibly as many as 1000 cards have made it into PSA holders illegitimately. They’ve authenticated more than 30M items. THREE THOUSANDTHS OF ONE PERCENT is better than 99.99% right based on the evidence available so far.

While i too believe there is more to be uncovered I think it is premature, and potentially libelous, to make such a general sweeping statement before there is evidence to support it.

Let’s not get in front of our headlights.

Did you make that number up? Nobody is saying it’s possibly 1,000 cards. There were 950 cards in just 1 submission.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Did you make that number up? Nobody is saying it’s possibly 1,000 cards. There were 950 cards in just 1 submission.

I think he's playing the spin game of limiting it to ones with actual conclusive before and after photos. Whatever.

[70ToppsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think he's playing the spin game of limiting it to ones with actual conclusive before and after photos. Whatever.

According to the link that was posted earlier in this thread there are about 350ish “verified” items that people bought for an aggregate of around $750k.

If you eyeball the list of alleged flip number ranges of suspected cards that is posted on BO the last time I checked it looked like there were on the order of 1000 items. I did say “so far”.

It’s early into this. Nobody knows how deep this rabbit hole goes. I also said I expect that the number would grow.

What you call spin I call letting it play out and in facts before rushing to judgment. Anyone who owns a significant number of PSA authenticated items has a vested interest in what ultimately comes out of this. I see no one questioning the person who posted that there were over 100,000 items about how he came up with that number.


I don’t understand the predominant need to try to hang PSA and significantly increase the damage to innocent collectors based on what we have learned so far.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Did you make that number up? Nobody is saying it’s possibly 1,000 cards. There were 950 cards in just 1 submission.

Well, that was the sum of like 6 submissions. But there have been another 1000 just from Moser in the recent few years. The fact that Joe Orlando was quoted as knowing Moser was submitting bad cards 15 years ago and they did not ban his account is very telling.

You need to send a check or credit card in order to pay for the items, and who would vouch for Moser time and time again to cover his items or pay for his services? (Well Brent, but who else?)

They need to release all of his submitted cards, decertify them so that the website tells them to return them for a review under the grade guarantee, and then actually do their job a second time. If they have to crack the card to see the edges, no problem. They have the slabbing machines. No reason they shouldn't see the edges clearly and not have to worry about glare to detect reglossing/recoloring.

They need to post on the front page of the website their lukewarm initial answer to make their owners more aware of the issue. I did get an email response from Mr. Sloan today.

[70ToppsFanatic]

That’s along the lines of the J&J approach that was used with the Tylenol issue years ago. It was the classic “right” way to handle a problem of this nature, although admittedly the consequences of that one were potentially life and death

It would be nice to have that kind of approach taken, but given what has been done in the past by PSA I doubt we will see anything near that. The more familiar “circle the wagons” approach is more typical from their playbook.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

That’s along the lines of the J&J approach that was used with the Tylenol issue years ago. It was the classic “right” way to handle a problem of this nature, although admittedly the consequences of that one were potentially life and death

It would be nice to have that kind of approach taken, but given what has been done in the past by PSA I doubt we will see anything near that. The more familiar “circle the wagons” approach is more typical from their playbook.

And handling cards with “razor sharp” corners is not potentially a life and death issue?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by swarmee

The fact that Joe Orlando was quoted as knowing Moser was submitting bad cards 15 years ago and they did not ban his account is very telling.

I didnt see that posted anywhere

[swarmee]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=612

From a thread that did not go poof.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Of course, PSA easily could reassure the collecting community about people they have banned, or explain why they haven't, but they won't. It's all a big secret. Trust us, we're well-versed in combating fraud, we'll deal with it privately, it's up to you to figure out what cards might be bad, and in that case contact the seller. I'll give JO credit, he knows well that a little scandal isn't going to rock the boat much as long as you keep a lid on it. The folks with money will toe the line and that's all that matters.

The only hope for change is law enforcement or possibly significant civil lawsuits.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=612

From a thread that did not go poof.

this is an excellent post!

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=612

From a thread that did not go poof.

Did I miss where he specifically asked, or mentioned Moser?

The quote was

"3. Telling a dealer they can no longer submit would do no good, since they can always submit through others"