PSA Response from President Steve Sloan

[Peter_Spaeth]

How many years later is it legitimate to go back to an innocent seller?

What is an "unknown" seller and why did Sloan limit the guarantee to that?

I think you are being too kind here. Way too kind. Sloan should be manning up not looking to say we're your court of last resort.

THEY graded the cards not the sellers.

[sportscardtheory]

I find both PSA's and PWCC's responses to this situation pathetic and ill-advised. If they want to regain trust in their brands, they should ONLY be responsive, helpful and proactive. They are being deflective and standoffish. Bad business.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I find both PSA's and PWCC's responses to this situation pathetic and ill-advised. If they want to regain trust in their brands, they should ONLY be responsive, helpful and proactive. They are being deflective and standoffish. Bad business.

No argument here. I don't see anyone defending PWCC at this point, and I truly do not understand the defense of PSA's statement pushing burden back on to the collector, minimizing the issue, and disowning the full scope of the guarantee. I get it of course from a corporate standpoint. Not an ethical one.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No argument here. I don't see anyone defending PWCC at this point, and I truly do not understand the defense of PSA's statement pushing burden back on to the collector, minimizing the issue, and disowning the full scope of the guarantee. I get it of course from a corporate standpoint. Not an ethical one.

Honestly, I don't even get it from a corporate standpoint. From a business standpoint, it makes zero sense to continue to damage your reputation with those who supply your profits. A smart business decision would be to immediately bite the bullet to regain consumer confidence. They aren't thinking long term, and that is bad business and shows me those in charge over there aren't very bright. If I had stock in PSA, it would be gone before it gets much worse. PWCC is signing their own death warrant. Even if getting through this costs them a couple million, it would benefit them greatly to be proactive and helpful. But they are clearly digging in, and that is bad news for anyone with stock or with investments in their graded cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Honestly, I don't even get it from a corporate standpoint. From a business standpoint, it makes zero sense to continue to damage your reputation with those who supply your profits. A smart business decision would be to immediately bite the bullet to regain consumer confidence. They aren't thinking long term, and that is bad business and shows me those in charge over there aren't very bright. If I had stock in PSA, it would be gone before it gets much worse. PWCC is signing their own death warrant. Even if getting through this costs them a couple million, it would benefit them greatly to be proactive and helpful. But they are clearly digging in, and that is bad news for anyone with stock or with investments in their graded cards.

I think their experience tells them all scandals blow over so preserve the bottom line.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think their experience tells them all scandals blow over so preserve the bottom line.

Well then I hope it backfires on them.

[sportscardtheory]

At this point, I would feel better with a TPG that ONLY slabs unaltered cards and does not do numerical grades. So their only focus is spotting fakes and alterations while using the best possible slabbing techniques and tech to keep cards safe. PSA and BGS are done, IMO. I love the BGS slabs, but they slab sheet cuts and can't spot alterations. I hate PSA slabs and they can't spot alterations. SGC slabs are ugly and flimsy. So now what?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How many years later is it legitimate to go back to an innocent seller?

What is an "unknown" seller and why did Sloan limit the guarantee to that?

I think you are being too kind here. Way too kind. Sloan should be manning up not looking to say we're your court of last resort.

THEY graded the cards not the sellers.

I've seen a dealer take a return on an altered coin that was sold something more than 10 years earlier.
The "negotiation" of the return was very brief.
Hi, do you recall selling me this half dollar?
Yes, that was a while ago.
I sent it in before selling it, and it came back as altered
Oh, can I take a look?
Sure, I think the mintmark was added.
Well, you're right. It has been. I don't know how I missed it. What did you pay
I think it was $X
That sounds about right, is a check ok?

I still visit his shop, and that was in I think 87.
Of course, he wasn't the one doing the altering.

I also got a good look at the altered coin, especially the added mintmark. It was a neat learning experience for me, not such a good day for him. I think the coin went on the next trip to the smelter along with the rest of the junk silver.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I can just imagine calling a big AH and saying I won a card from you 5 years ago that I would now like to return for a refund because I suspect it's altered. Or even better, a small ebay seller. The statement is obnoxious, in my view.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I can just imagine calling a big AH and saying I won a card from you 5 years ago that I would now like to return for a refund because I suspect it's altered. Or even better, a small ebay seller. The statement is obnoxious, in my view.

From what I've been given to understand, in both stamps and coins, the good dealers have an unstated lifetime warranty. I've never heard it said openly, but everyone I've talked about the business end with has told me that taking back mistakes, even if they're very old mistakes is just what's done.

When I was running the bicycle shop I do some work for, I essentially took the same view. I know my own work, and while we had a stated warranty of I think 90 days when I got a bike in that I'd worked on that wasn't really right, and that I could tell hadn't been ridden much in about 2 years, I fixed it free. New tires had been part of the original repair, and the little rubber bits from the mold venting hadn't even worn off.
Talk about a surprised and happy customer.

[Bigdaddy]

PSA is doing everything they can to:

1. Limit their liability for their own mistakes
2. Maintain their brand reputation as the preferred TPG
3. Not have the hobby go the way of stamps

They are digging in and denying accountability. Maybe they are preparing for a run in politics.

That is all.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

PSA is doing everything they can to:

1. Limit their liability for their own mistakes
2. Maintain their brand reputation as the preferred TPG
3. Not have the hobby go the way of stamps

They are digging in and denying accountability. Maybe they are preparing for a run in politics.

That is all.

Not have the hobby go the way of stamps....

So you don't want to have three authenticating/grading companies that are right nearly every time, plus at least one specialized one? And that's just in the US.

You'd rather have one big grading company, one somewhere in the middle and one small one all of them getting things wrong regularly? Especially the largest?
Might I recommend the PSA board. They have plenty of sand to put your head under.

Stamps are doing just fine, especially the older ones and China.

[mybestbretts]

It would appear to me after my recent incounter with PSA that maybe PSA
really doesn't know what a trimmed card is and should not be in the business of grading cards