PSA Response from President Steve Sloan

JeremyW · #1 06-13-2019, 06:29 PM

Just a question, but isn't PSA on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars of guaranty money on all of the altered cards?

swarmee · #2 06-13-2019, 07:03 PM

We think it's closer to millions by now. But if they can get PWCC to refund, that limits their exposure.

egbeachley · #3 06-13-2019, 07:15 PM

Yes, well over $1 million by now. Some numbers are lower as they are tracking the gain between alterations. But the guaranty would be based on the latest price.

I seriously doubt PWCC is doing many refunds. Their profit on each sale is just a portion of their fee, less eBay fees and labor costs. Probably just 2% or so per card at best. Assuming they didn’t get a cut from Moser, of course.

Johnny630 · #4 06-13-2019, 08:28 PM

What is their vault??? I don't understand what that's all about? Are they holding cards like a in a safe deposit box as collateral ??
I'm naive can somome please explain??

Thanks

swarmee · #5 06-13-2019, 08:56 PM

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/vault

jad22 · #6 06-13-2019, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny630

What is their vault??? I don't understand what that's all about? Are they holding cards like a in a safe deposit box as collateral ??
I'm naive can somome please explain??

Thanks

Does Moser have an office at the vault? I don’t understand it either.

Johnny630 · #7 06-14-2019, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jad22

Does Moser have an office at the vault? I don�t understand it either.

Lmao !!!

I would like to hear from Them what the hell is this vault who�s stuff is it it ???

chalupacollects · #8 06-14-2019, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Lmao !!!

I would like to hear from Them what the hell is this vault who�s stuff is it it ???

Soon it may be an evidence locker!

WhenItWasAHobby · #9 06-17-2019, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

We think it's closer to millions by now. But if they can get PWCC to refund, that limits their exposure.

Massive card doctoring has been going on for 12+ years by numerous dealers selling PSA-graded cards. My estimation is that PSA's liability would easily be in the tens of millions if not eclipsing one hundred million dollars - seriously.

Also, Collectors Universe's coin grading company once tried to sue dealers who allegedly intentionally submitted doctored coins claiming the dealers were liable and not CU for the damages. CU's case was tossed out of court. I don't see any difference here.

vintagetoppsguy · #10 06-17-2019, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Also, Collectors Universe's coin grading company once tried to sue dealers who allegedly intentionally submitted doctored coins claiming the dealers were liable and not CU for the damages. CU's case was tossed out of court. I don't see any difference here.

I think people need to take note of this. It's PSA wanting to pass the buck for their incompetency. PSA is the grader and authenticator. They are the ones to blame for this mess, nobody else. PSA certified these, PSA needs to be the one financially responsible. I hope a year from now we refer to PSA just like we do GAI, just another defunct grading company.

WhenItWasAHobby · #11 06-17-2019, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think people need to take note of this. It's PSA wanting to pass the buck for their incompetency. PSA is the grader and authenticator. They are the ones to blame for this mess, nobody else. PSA certified these, PSA needs to be the one financially responsible.

Exactly.

perezfan · #12 06-17-2019, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think people need to take note of this. It's PSA wanting to pass the buck for their incompetency. PSA is the grader and authenticator. They are the ones to blame for this mess, nobody else. PSA certified these, PSA needs to be the one financially responsible. I hope a year from now we refer to PSA just like we do GAI, just another defunct grading company.

Spot on...

Sure PWCC is slimy as hell, and should be put out of business. But it's the highly defective/contradictory/inept/favorable (take your pick of adjectives) PSA Grading that makes every aspect of this scandal possible.

The fact that they try to weasel out of their meaningless "guarantee" is just more icing on the rotting cake.

drcy · #13 06-17-2019, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Spot on...

Sure PWCC is slimy as hell, and should be put out of business. But it's the highly defective/contradictory/inept/favorable (take your pick of adjectives) PSA Grading that makes every aspect of this scandal possible.

The fact that they try to weasel out of their meaningless "guarantee" is just more icing on the rotting cake.

It's not an either/or. Many cases involve multiple guilty parties.

Peter_Spaeth · #14 06-17-2019, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

It's not an either/or. Many cases involve multiple guilty parties.

People doctoring cards, people knowingly selling doctored cards, and TPGs who are supposed to protect collectors against this somehow slabbing countless doctored cards. It's enough to make you ill.

perezfan · #15 06-17-2019, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

It's not an either/or. Many cases involve multiple guilty parties.

Yes, of course there are multiple guilty parties, which have been at work for a lot longer than this scandal has been readily apparent.

The PSA portion is the most damaging long-term, as their seal of approval gives the card an automatic "thumbs-up" to every facet of the secondary market, auction house and eBay. Hundreds (perhaps thousands) of questionable PSA-approved cards will infiltrate all of our favorite auction houses. No doubt, they already have.

Moser/PWCC is a major gateway.... and from there, it's anyone's guess where and when they will again surface.

CMIZ5290 · #16 06-17-2019, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think people need to take note of this. It's PSA wanting to pass the buck for their incompetency. PSA is the grader and authenticator. They are the ones to blame for this mess, nobody else. PSA certified these, PSA needs to be the one financially responsible. I hope a year from now we refer to PSA just like we do GAI, just another defunct grading company.

David, You have to be kidding right? They are still PSA.... Do you guys think that SGC doesn't have any issues? Look at some of their high end, high dollar cards recently with huge Sellers. I have seen very recent T206s graded SGC 84 and 86's that look like 5's... Bottom line, this corruption is everywhere, period....

Exhibitman · #17 06-17-2019, 10:59 PM

1: Don't forget Beckett. In dollar value the cards on which they screwed the pooch may exceed the PSA mistakes.

2: It is unforgivable that PSA and Beckett are not up front assuring the collector base that they will compensate anyone who got ripped off with these altered cards in their holders. After all, the reason we are at this point is that PSA and Beckett suck giant elephant ass at the one thing they are paid to do; no amount of criminality in the creation and processing of these cards can change that fact. Each doctored card was in PSA or Beckett for an evaluation and they f***ed up every single one of them. That isn't the seller's fault it is the grader's fault.

I'm so sick of the whole thing...

Peter_Spaeth · #18 06-17-2019, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

1: Don't forget Beckett. In dollar value the cards on which they screwed the pooch may exceed the PSA mistakes.

2: It is unforgivable that PSA and Beckett are not up front assuring the collector base that they will compensate anyone who got ripped off with these altered cards in their holders. After all, the reason we are at this point is that PSA and Beckett suck giant elephant ass at the one thing they are paid to do; no amount of criminality in the creation and processing of these cards can change that fact. Each doctored card was in PSA or Beckett for an evaluation and they f***ed up every single one of them. That isn't the seller's fault it is the grader's fault.

I'm so sick of the whole thing...

Adam, you and I both know nothing proactive like that will ever happen here. It will be the same old bullshit of denying, deflecting, disingenuously minimizing the scope of the problem, and falsely reassuring people it's all been contained and fixed. Beckett may not say anything at all. If the guys on Blowout are to be believed, there is an incestuous relationship there between the company and major trimmers. Sloan's statement was maddening beyond belief.

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