Poll: response to recent PWCC revelations

Dpeck100 · #1 06-14-2019, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

David can speak for himself but my take on his comments was the opposite. No disdain for those choosing to spend their money elsewhere but rather for those calling him out for where he chooses to spend his money.

That is my opinion any way, even if I got David's wrong. I have no problem with what any of you spend your money on. But don't act like I'm some kind of idiot because I may not agree with your point of view. I have assumed this kind of stuff was going on long before i got into the hobby. And I don't believe the probability of buying a graded card that is altered and escaped detection at a tpg is much greater at any one auction house than it is at another.

Exactly. I certainly don't care what one chooses to do with their money. I just find it ridiculous the moral authority that suggests you and I are bad actors for being willing to buy from them. I focus on my collection and mine only. For me I want to continue to build it and that means more to me than being worried about who I buy cards from.

Ethics is treating others how you want to be treated. Taking care of those close to you. Not who you buy trading cards from.

What kid when I was growing up got treated fairly by the local card dealer? None. EBAY has leveled the playing field where the collector can be the house. In many cases it is my understanding that the fees that get charged on consignments can actually be cheaper than doing it yourself. If anything the collector is netting more today from the sale of their cards than ever. That is a good thing.

HasselhoffsCheeseburger · #2 06-14-2019, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Exactly. I certainly don't care what one chooses to do with their money. I just find it ridiculous the moral authority that suggests you and I are bad actors for being willing to buy from them. I focus on my collection and mine only. For me I want to continue to build it and that means more to me than being worried about who I buy cards from.

You act like Brent got caught being mean to somebody's Mom. Allegedly, he's been caught red-handed committing fraud and conspiring to commit fraud. He's been a key player in an enterprise that has allegedly scammed hundreds, if not thousands, of fellow collectors out of hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not over a million by now). There's an ethical and legal precedence for this. We pass judgment on people that choose to do business with people like this.

You can buy a gun from a gun store but you don't get to head down to Park Place and buy a gun with the serial number filed off from Joe Gangster out of the trunk of his car. As a society we've established ethical norms and that's not okay. Doing business with people who allegedly commit fraud and try to hurt others for their own financial gain is not a personal preference, it is a conscious choice to go against the societal norms on ethics that have been established.

So, yeah, that's sort of where people are coming from when they say you shouldn't be doing business with him.

sportscardtheory · #3 06-14-2019, 03:42 PM

This guy doesn't even care that the people he decides to do business with are committing fraud. Now imagine how much he cares about our opinions. He's the figurative embodiment of cognitive dissonance. It's like talking at a wall. He's the perfect PWCC/PSA/BGS victim, because he couldn't care less that he's being victimized. Let him sink.

Dpeck100 · #4 06-14-2019, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

You act like Brent got caught being mean to somebody's Mom. Allegedly, he's been caught red-handed committing fraud and conspiring to commit fraud. He's been a key player in an enterprise that has allegedly scammed hundreds, if not thousands, of fellow collectors out of hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not over a million by now). There's an ethical and legal precedence for this. We pass judgment on people that choose to do business with people like this.

You can buy a gun from a gun store but you don't get to head down to Park Place and buy a gun with the serial number filed off from Joe Gangster out of the trunk of his car. As a society we've established ethical norms and that's not okay. Doing business with people who allegedly commit fraud and try to hurt others for their own financial gain is not a personal preference, it is a conscious choice to go against the societal norms on ethics that have been established.

So, yeah, that's sort of where people are coming from when they say you shouldn't be doing business with him.

I believe in due process. There have been many people executed in the court of public opinion and not in all cases is wrong doing found. I can think of a very significant recent example.

We will find out if Brent is guilty of all of the crimes that have been alleged. They state in the article an investigation is taking place. If there is as much proof as some allege it will catch up to him. If that happens then I won't need to worry about buying from PWCC.

Brent built a better mouse trap and if he ruined it with greed that will be his own doing.

You have passed judgment on me for years so no concern here.

HasselhoffsCheeseburger · #5 06-15-2019, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I believe in due process. There have been many people executed in the court of public opinion and not in all cases is wrong doing found. I can think of a very significant recent example.

We will find out if Brent is guilty of all of the crimes that have been alleged. They state in the article an investigation is taking place. If there is as much proof as some allege it will catch up to him. If that happens then I won't need to worry about buying from PWCC.

Brent built a better mouse trap and if he ruined it with greed that will be his own doing.

You have passed judgment on me for years so no concern here.

We will find out if Brent is charged. There's actually irrefutable proof of what he's alleged. You're choosing to stick your head in the sand because it suits your current position.

As far as me passing judgment on you, I think that's a bit melodramatic. I watched for years while you pumped CU with hype about the cards you were "investing" in and only chimed in when you made statements of factual error. The one time I "passed judgment on you" was here, on Net54, when you admitted that you were propping up the Panini Tyson market because you had so much invested in it. You took a lot of people for a ride but that's all good because you learned about it in an economics class.

According to Harvard, 1 in every 25 people is a sociopath.

Arthur

darwinbulldog · #6 06-15-2019, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

According to Harvard, 1 in every 25 people is a sociopath.

Arthur

David Hare and Linda Mealey both put it just above 1%. Your Harvard citation is the first time I've seen it claimed above 2%. Do you recall the name of the psychologist or whoever it was?

Dpeck100 · #7 06-16-2019, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

We will find out if Brent is charged. There's actually irrefutable proof of what he's alleged. You're choosing to stick your head in the sand because it suits your current position.

As far as me passing judgment on you, I think that's a bit melodramatic. I watched for years while you pumped CU with hype about the cards you were "investing" in and only chimed in when you made statements of factual error. The one time I "passed judgment on you" was here, on Net54, when you admitted that you were propping up the Panini Tyson market because you had so much invested in it. You took a lot of people for a ride but that's all good because you learned about it in an economics class.

According to Harvard, 1 in every 25 people is a sociopath.

Arthur

Haha

Took people for a ride? I have never bid more than $500 for a copy on EBAY. I got in on the ground floor and yes there has been a pattern of me making people aware of cards and watching them explode in value. It has been nice.

I still have my PSA 10, 5 PSA 9's an 8 and a UK 8 so I got the pump part right but I somehow screwed up the dump part.

Sociopath. Now that is a first. Sorry my collection is much more important to me than fitting in online with the crowd. If you feel better about yourself because you won't bid in a PWCC auction that is great. Life will go on for both of us.

perezfan · #8 06-16-2019, 12:06 PM

A very fine example of how "stuff trumps all".

Exhibitman · #9 06-14-2019, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Exactly. I certainly don't care what one chooses to do with their money. I just find it ridiculous the moral authority that suggests you and I are bad actors for being willing to buy from them. I focus on my collection and mine only. For me I want to continue to build it and that means more to me than being worried about who I buy cards from.

Ethics is treating others how you want to be treated. Taking care of those close to you. Not who you buy trading cards from.

What kid when I was growing up got treated fairly by the local card dealer? None. EBAY has leveled the playing field where the collector can be the house. In many cases it is my understanding that the fees that get charged on consignments can actually be cheaper than doing it yourself. If anything the collector is netting more today from the sale of their cards than ever. That is a good thing.

Ethics imbues all aspects of your life: if you really hold those values you don't compartmentalize. i don't sometimes cheat people. I try not to cheat anyone regardless of whether it is a law client or an eBay purchaser.

Your last paragraph makes me feel sorry for you. I was treated very well by quite a few local card dealers when I was a kid. They went out of their way to help me, answered questions, and gave me deals on cards. That you never had that sort of good experience in the hobby as a kid goes a long way to explaining your 'I got mine and the rest of the world be damned' attitude about collecting.

Dpeck100 · #10 06-14-2019, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Ethics imbues all aspects of your life: if you really hold those values you don't compartmentalize. i don't sometimes cheat people. I try not to cheat anyone regardless of whether it is a law client or an eBay purchaser.

Your last paragraph makes me feel sorry for you. I was treated very well by quite a few local card dealers when I was a kid. They went out of their way to help me, answered questions, and gave me deals on cards. That you never had that sort of good experience in the hobby as a kid goes a long way to explaining your 'I got mine and the rest of the world be damned' attitude about collecting.

Having a card dealer want to give you 50 cents on the dollar for your cards that you just pulled out of packs but also wants to sell you packs at full price is what was the norm in my experience but that has had no bearing on my outlook in life.

I view cards as one big scavenger hunt. They are out there and you have to find them. All of the economics courses I took when I was younger is what has shaped my views the most in all aspects of life.

bnorth · #11 06-14-2019, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Having a card dealer want to give you 50 cents on the dollar for your cards that you just pulled out of packs but also wants to sell you packs at full price is what was the norm in my experience but that has had no bearing on my outlook in life.

I view cards as one big scavenger hunt. They are out there and you have to find them. All of the economics courses I took when I was younger is what has shaped my views the most in all aspects of life.

That was the norm for me also. I didn't understand that as a kid. Then as a adult and former long time business owner I realized that was actually a really good deal. My main card shop guy used to travel to shows all over the US. He would pick up any oddball Wade Boggs cards he could find for me.

I also know i get great joy looking at the cards you post. I especially like the ones showing the AWA guys. I watched them as a kid in the 70's.

Dpeck100 · #12 06-14-2019, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

That was the norm for me also. I didn't understand that as a kid. Then as a adult and former long time business owner I realized that was actually a really good deal. My main card shop guy used to travel to shows all over the US. He would pick up any oddball Wade Boggs cards he could find for me.

I also know i get great joy looking at the cards you post. I especially like the ones showing the AWA guys. I watched them as a kid in the 70's.

I am glad you have taken the time to look at them and certainly that you enjoyed it and got some nostalgia out of it.

There was a question on Twitter today asking what advice you would give to someone who is considering collecting and my response was simply collect what you like.

To your point it was fair with their cost structure to operate that way but EBAY changed that and gave power to the collector. The barriers to entry in cards is just money so anyone with a few bucks can play. There was a great thread a few years ago on CU where a guy was flipping his way to a Mantle. The open market that EBAY created put many of the dealers on the ropes and allowed for scenarios where just your every day guy can try and play and win.

bnorth · #13 06-14-2019, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I am glad you have taken the time to look at them and certainly that you enjoyed it and got some nostalgia out of it.

There was a question on Twitter today asking what advice you would give to someone who is considering collecting and my response was simply collect what you like.

To your point it was fair with their cost structure to operate that way but EBAY changed that and gave power to the collector. The barriers to entry in cards is just money so anyone with a few bucks can play. There was a great thread a few years ago on CU where a guy was flipping his way to a Mantle. The open market that EBAY created put many of the dealers on the ropes and allowed for scenarios where just your every day guy can try and play and win.

That is the same advice I give. My problem is over the 35 years i have been collecting my focus has changed a bunch of times. Lately I have added Wade Boggs bats to my must have list. Hoping to get a rookie gamer tomorrow.

Dpeck100 · #14 06-14-2019, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

That is the same advice I give. My problem is over the 35 years i have been collecting my focus has changed a bunch of times. Lately I have added Wade Boggs bats to my must have list. Hoping to get a rookie gamer tomorrow.

That sounds really awesome!

Wade has taken on somewhat of a legendary status for his beer drinking. Amazing how much he can drink! Could hang with Andre The Giant for awhile.

View Poll Results: What is your response to the recent PWCC revelations?
1. I wasn't buying from or consigning to PWCC in the first place.	166	34.87%
I will no longer buy from/consign to PWCC.	163	34.24%
I will continue to buy from/consign to PWCC.	78	16.39%
I haven't decided	69	14.50%
Voters: 476. You may not vote on this poll

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