Is CC Sabathia a Hall of Famer?

Kenny Cole · #1 06-21-2019, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Career stats of the two are very similar. Rizzuto won three major awards and was second in MVP voting once. Reese won no major awards. Also, Phil had just a few more championship rings. However, I see them both as borderline HOFers at best.

Reese: WAR - 66.3; AB- 8058; H- 2178; Hr - 126; BA - .269; R - 1338; RBI - 885; SB - 232; OBP - .366; SLG - .377; OPS - .743. 10 AS games.

Rizzuto: WAR - 40.8; AB - 5816; H - 1588; HR - 38; BA - .273; R - 873; RBI - 563; SB - 149; OBP - .351; SLG - .355; OPS - .706. 5 AS games.

Both were leaders. No dispute about that. Both lost 3 years to WWII. And I have no problem with either of them being in. But in a blind taste test, which one do you take? IMO, that's an easy call and it isn't the Scooter.

oldjudge · #2 06-21-2019, 02:29 AM

Kenny�I agree at first glance (and maybe second) Reese�s stats look better. He had over 1/3 more ABs, so Hits/yr are about the same. Reese hit for a little more power, although neither would be confused with a home run hitter. Rizzuto won a slew of rings and Pee Wee, near the end of his career, won one. Rizzuto was an MVP and runner up MVP. Reese was never the bride or the bridesmaid. Not that it should matter but Phil was an American institution. I never heard Pee Wee on a Meat Loaf album. He was the most entertaining broadcaster I ever heard and was the nicest guy ever in person. i�ll take Phil every day if the week and twice on Sunday.

Tabe · #3 06-21-2019, 02:47 AM

My vote on CC is no. 9 seasons of 3.90 or higher ERA. Yeah, he's got 250 wins but he got there by averaging 8 wins a year since 2013.

Not a terrible selection but no.

Yastrzemski Sports · #4 06-21-2019, 07:16 AM

CC is pitching in a hitters ballpark, against a DH, in one of the most hitter friendly ballparks in baseball. At the same time, he has earned a roster spot playing on one of the most competitive teams in one of the most demanding markets in baseball. He is not compiling numbers. He is a productive and important part of the team. He has a career war which places him in company with many other HOF pitchers. ERA does not tell the whole story. He is almost 100 wins over .500 with an ERA+ of 117. Combined with a CY and a WS he will probably be a first ballot guy.

packs · #5 06-21-2019, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

CC is pitching in a hitters ballpark, against a DH, in one of the most hitter friendly ballparks in baseball. At the same time, he has earned a roster spot playing on one of the most competitive teams in one of the most demanding markets in baseball. He is not compiling numbers. He is a productive and important part of the team. He has a career war which places him in company with many other HOF pitchers. ERA does not tell the whole story. He is almost 100 wins over .500 with an ERA+ of 117. Combined with a CY and a WS he will probably be a first ballot guy.

First ballot? I'm going to say a name that no one associates with the HOF but in my opinion is a name I'd rather have on the rubber than CC: Tim Hudson. He also won almost (89) 100 more games than he lost, his ERA is lower than CC at 3.49, his ERA+ is higher at 120 and his best season (7.5 WAR in 2003) is better than CC's Cy Young season (6.3 in 2007). Even Hudson's second best season in 2002 (WAR of 6.9) was better than any single Sabathia season.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #6 06-21-2019, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

First ballot? I'm going to say a name that no one associates with the HOF but in my opinion is a name I'd rather have on the rubber than CC: Tim Hudson. He also won almost (89) 100 more games than he lost, his ERA is lower than CC at 3.49, his ERA+ is higher at 120 and his best season (7.5 WAR in 2003) is better than CC's Cy Young season (6.3 in 2007). Even Hudson's second best season in 2002 (WAR of 6.9) was better than any single Sabathia season.

As much as it pains me to agree with Packs (who is using WAR in a discussion???!!!) he's got a point. Hudson really was consistently good longer than CC and his peak was higher.

Now Packs, about Corey Dickerson...

packs · #7 06-21-2019, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

As much as it pains me to agree with Packs (who is using WAR in a discussion???!!!) he's got a point. Hudson really was consistently good longer than CC and his peak was higher.

Now Packs, about Corey Dickerson...

Haha I've always thought Hudson has been criminally overlooked and he's been one of my favorite players since he came into the league. I loved watching him pitch.

Yastrzemski Sports · #8 06-21-2019, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

First ballot? I'm going to say a name that no one associates with the HOF but in my opinion is a name I'd rather have on the rubber than CC: Tim Hudson. He also won almost (89) 100 more games than he lost, his ERA is lower than CC at 3.49, his ERA+ is higher at 120 and his best season (7.5 WAR in 2003) is better than CC's Cy Young season (6.3 in 2007). Even Hudson's second best season in 2002 (WAR of 6.9) was better than any single Sabathia season.

Hudson had a very nice career. The reason no one associated him with the HOF is that he has isn�t going there. He has 222 wins and 2000 strikeouts. CC has 250 wins and 3000 K to go with the CY. If you are comparing a guy with 2000k to a guy with 3000k that�s where the argument ends.
CCs best season were 19-7, 3.21 and 21-7, 3.18. He also had two more 19 win seasons. Also, CC had a war of 7.2 in 2008 which was split with Cleveland and Milwaukee. CC is retiring at the end of this season. I would guess he and Ichiro will go in together - because at this time they are the only 2 players retiring who are worth voting for. There is always the possibility he will have to wait another year but I doubt it.

packs · #9 06-24-2019, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Hudson had a very nice career. The reason no one associated him with the HOF is that he has isn�t going there. He has 222 wins and 2000 strikeouts. CC has 250 wins and 3000 K to go with the CY. If you are comparing a guy with 2000k to a guy with 3000k that�s where the argument ends.
CCs best season were 19-7, 3.21 and 21-7, 3.18. He also had two more 19 win seasons. Also, CC had a war of 7.2 in 2008 which was split with Cleveland and Milwaukee. CC is retiring at the end of this season. I would guess he and Ichiro will go in together - because at this time they are the only 2 players retiring who are worth voting for. There is always the possibility he will have to wait another year but I doubt it.

The stats you're bringing up for CC are compiler stats. Without hanging around as a below average pitcher since 2013 and putting up one decent season in 2017, CC doesn't sniff 250 wins or 3000 K's.

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