PSA/BGS/PWCC dispute or refund thread

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So Orange County's demographics favor PSA in a suit by one of its customers over a baseball card, as a general proposition unrelated to the facts of the case. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Yes, Orange County's demographics favor corporate defendants such as PSA over individual plaintiffs. Wont and cant go into the politics behind that, but that is obviously a huge part of the reason why. As a general proposition I absolutely believe that Orange County is a really bad venue for any individual plaintiff. Period. Not insurmountable, but a problem. You can go try a case there and win, sure, but it is just much harder there than in other areas. It is what it is and life goes on.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Yes, Orange County's demographics favor corporate defendants such as PSA over individual plaintiffs. Wont and cant go into the politics behind that, but that is obviously a huge part of the reason why. As a general proposition I absolutely believe that Orange County is a really bad venue for any individual plaintiff. Period. Not insurmountable, but a problem. You can go try a case there and win, sure, but it is just much harder there than in other areas. It is what it is and life goes on.

Again. Based on what analysis? What facts? What statistics? What anything? You're just making shit up as far as I can tell, for what purpose I don't know. It also sounds to me like you're engaging in some serious stereotyping, but let's leave that out of it. And again, you made the exact same statement about the C.D.Cal., an incredibly diverse and huge area.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Again. Based on what analysis? What facts? What statistics? What anything? You're just making shit up as far as I can tell, for what purpose I don't know.

Go look it up. I am somewhat constrained by the ban on talking about politics, but its pretty easy to get there. How about you do that before you shoot anymore?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Go look it up. I am somewhat constrained by the ban on talking about politics, but its pretty easy to get there. How about you do that before you shoot anymore?

Ridiculous stereotyping if I am reading you correctly. And I take it you have backed off the statement about the C.D.Cal. now which is where you started?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Moreover, guys who go to Orange County to pursue PSA over a baseball card are probably going to be of the same demographic you are hinting at.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Moreover, guys who go to Orange County to pursue PSA over a baseball card are probably going to be of the same demographic you are hinting at.

Spare me. It isn't the plaintiff. Its the judge and the jurors, assuming you get there. You know that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Spare me. It isn't the plaintiff. Its the judge and the jurors, assuming you get there. You know that.

Why would the judge and jurors side with a small company against someone of their own demographic, if you think that demographic somehow plays into it which I don't buy? Are you saying being of a certain demographic makes one inherently pro-defendant regardless of the identities of the parties, the nature of the case, the evidence, etc.?

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ridiculous stereotyping if I am reading you correctly. And I take it you have backed off the statement about the C.D.Cal. now which is where you started?

No. I believe that to be true from what I understand. And, I would ask, if you were drafting a forum selection clause for a client in a real liberal venue, would you do that? I would think probably not. That would probably be stupid and would be a disservice to your client absent other concerns. If there was a venue close by that was better for your client, wouldn't you do that? This the same thing, only in reverse. If Orange County wasn't way conservative, do you seriously contend that the forum selection clause would be there, as opposed to a real close but more conservative venue? Not seeing it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

No. I believe that to be true from what I understand. And, I would ask, if you were drafting a forum selection clause for a client in a real liberal venue, would you do that? I would think probably not. That would probably be stupid and would be a disservice to your client absent other concerns. If there was a venue close by that was better for your client, wouldn't you do that? This the same thing, only in reverse. If Orange County wasn't way conservative, do you seriously contend that the forum selection clause would be there, as opposed to a real close but more conservative venue? Not seeing it.

I infer nothing other than PSA is in Newport Beach or Santa Ana or whatever and chose its home forum as a matter of convenience, as most companies do. Your argument is assuming its conclusion, namely if Orange County wasn't conservative PSA wouldn't have chosen it.

Now if you said, they choose Orange County because they think a judge or jury might favor an Orange County party, well that might make some sense, but that has nothing to do with the demographics of the forum or its residents or judges.

I think you will find the vast majority of forum selection clauses are home base clauses.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I infer nothing other than PSA is in Newport Beach or Santa Ana or whatever and chose its home forum as a matter of convenience, as most companies do. Your argument is assuming its conclusion, namely if Orange County wasn't conservative PSA wouldn't have chosen it.

LOL. OK. That is a real easy conclusion to draw, particularly if you take the time to actually look. But whatever. We, at least, both agree that this debacle is awful. Ultimately, I would suggest that is what's important.

[pokerplyr80]

OC isn't nearly as conservative as it used to be. They just voted in a liberal in the Laguna/Newport district. Demographics are much different in Santa Ana than they are by the water. I know nothing about how judges in the area tend to rule, but if you're saying Santa Ana is a politically conservative area you probably haven't spent much time here.

[MULLINS5]

Venue written as exclusive and mandatory is a logistical decision - nothing more.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

Venue written as exclusive and mandatory is a logistical decision - nothing more.

Of course. Every corporation in America, or most, use such clauses to mandate home jurisdictions.