PSA/SGC Waiting Lines At 2019 National

barrysloate · #1 06-30-2019, 06:23 PM

So the hobby will move forward with the recognition by all or most collectors that there will be altered cards regularly offered for sale. In a logical world, any hint that a high grade card might be altered would result in a deep discount, since most collectors would recognize the high probability of not getting an actual high grade card.

But in the bizarro way our hobby has evolved, those very cards will continue to set world records. Why is it that no matter how many times I think about this, I still can't seem to accept the stupidity of it.

It's like selling horse meat and calling it filet mignon. It's selling spam and calling it caviar. It makes no f#cking sense.

Kenny Cole · #2 06-30-2019, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

So the hobby will move forward with the recognition by all or most collectors that there will be altered cards regularly offered for sale. In a logical world, any hint that a high grade card might be altered would result in a deep discount, since most collectors would recognize the high probability of not getting an actual high grade card.

But in the bizarro way our hobby has evolved, those very cards will continue to set world records. Why is it that no matter how many times I think about this, I still can't seem to accept the stupidity of it.

It's like selling horse meat and calling it filet mignon. It's selling spam and calling it caviar. It makes no f#cking sense.

Certain people buy the flip, not the card. So long as the number on the flip is high enough, some people will be happy to far overpay even if the actual card looks like it went through the garbage disposal. If you look at it that way, it makes a certain kind of sense. It is both bizarre and more than a little sad from my perspective. But unfortunately, that does not make it any less true.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 06-30-2019, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

So the hobby will move forward with the recognition by all or most collectors that there will be altered cards regularly offered for sale. In a logical world, any hint that a high grade card might be altered would result in a deep discount, since most collectors would recognize the high probability of not getting an actual high grade card.

But in the bizarro way our hobby has evolved, those very cards will continue to set world records. Why is it that no matter how many times I think about this, I still can't seem to accept the stupidity of it.

It's like selling horse meat and calling it filet mignon. It's selling spam and calling it caviar. It makes no f#cking sense.

Because you won't accept that the flip, not the card, is now the commodity for some people.

VintageBen · #4 06-30-2019, 06:50 PM

SGC's lines will be longer this yr, because I think their computer system crashed last year.... all i know is that there wasn't any buzz near the SGC compound

Republicaninmass · #5 06-30-2019, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VintageBen

SGC's lines will be longer this yr, because I think their computer system crashed last year.... all i know is that there wasn't any buzz near the SGC compound

Reduced by not taking autographs though

pokerplyr80 · #6 06-30-2019, 07:21 PM

When I went 2 years ago I don't remember ever seeing many people lined up at SGC, BGS had a decent crowd. I waited 20 or 30 minutes to have a couple modern cards reviewed. And the line at PSA was practically out of the building the entire time. As many in the hobby haven't even heard of this scandal I wouldn't expect much to change.

mechanicalman · #7 06-30-2019, 07:23 PM

As flawed as they are, I think the TPGs will do just fine at the National, as they still represent a better opinion than a biased seller. Case in point: there�s a dude selling a 51 Bowman Mantle on a popular Internet chat board. He repeatedly calls it �centered� even though, it may be, at best, 75/25 on the x axis. So, as long as sellers continue to oversell their cards with puffery and spin, there will be a market for third party grading to provide an objective, if not occasionally inaccurate, opinion.

oldjudge · #8 06-30-2019, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

As flawed as they are, I think the TPGs will do just fine at the National, as they still represent a better opinion than a biased seller. Case in point: there�s a dude selling a 51 Bowman Mantle on a popular Internet chat board. He repeatedly calls it �centered� even though, it may be, at best, 75/25 on the x axis. So, as long as sellers continue to oversell their cards with puffery and spin, there will be a market for third party grading to provide an objective, if not occasionally inaccurate, opinion.

+1

barrysloate · #9 06-30-2019, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Because you won't accept that the flip, not the card, is now the commodity for some people.

I understand the reason, but a flip is not a commodity. It's a piece of paper with some information typed on it. The baseball card is the commodity. That's why I call it a bizarro world.

When I decide to sell my Honda CR-V, I'm going to put a "Rolls Royce for Sale" sign on it. I'll let you know how I do.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 06-30-2019, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I understand the reason, but a flip is not a commodity. It's a piece of paper with some information typed on it. The baseball card is the commodity. That's why I call it a bizarro world.

When I decide to sell my Honda CR-V, I'm going to put a "Rolls Royce for Sale" sign on it. I'll let you know how I do.

Wrong. For many out there, the flip is the commodity now. Accept it, stop resisting, deal with it lol.

barrysloate · #11 07-01-2019, 04:39 AM

Of course I understand it Peter. I'm simply rejecting it with every ounce of energy I have left.

Peter_Spaeth · #12 07-01-2019, 05:42 AM

These are assets, son, not baseball cards. Just ask the visionary from Lake Oswego.

perezfan · #13 06-30-2019, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

So the hobby will move forward with the recognition by all or most collectors that there will be altered cards regularly offered for sale. In a logical world, any hint that a high grade card might be altered would result in a deep discount, since most collectors would recognize the high probability of not getting an actual high grade card.

But in the bizarro way our hobby has evolved, those very cards will continue to set world records. Why is it that no matter how many times I think Abs out this, I still can't seem to accept the stupidity of it.

It's like selling horse meat and calling it filet mignon. It's selling spam and calling it caviar. It makes no f#cking sense.

It�s depressing as hell, and was the master plan of the TPGs. The money-driven �bad apples� in the collecting world are driven by ego and greed... and they were ripe for the picking. Now this mess is what we�re left with.

topcat61 · #14 07-01-2019, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

So the hobby will move forward with the recognition by all or most collectors that there will be altered cards regularly offered for sale. In a logical world, any hint that a high grade card might be altered would result in a deep discount, since most collectors would recognize the high probability of not getting an actual high grade card.

But in the bizarro way our hobby has evolved, those very cards will continue to set world records. Why is it that no matter how many times I think about this, I still can't seem to accept the stupidity of it.

It's like selling horse meat and calling it filet mignon. It's selling spam and calling it caviar. It makes no f#cking sense.

I always thought an altered card was worth 10% of it's original value? also though that Dr. James Beckett had all this nailed down as "industry standards"? Maybe you can help me understand something. Beckett used dealers financial accounts dent to the company to come up with a statistical formula to calculate a cards worth...is that what PSA does? Would it be a conflict of interest for PSA to grade cards and come up with a value for their graded cards in their price guide? Thanks.

frankbmd · #15 07-01-2019, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copa7

https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...UTdWxRyQMRqowA

I think PSA will have shorter lines, at least with intelligent collectors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oxymoron.

Self-aggrandizement

bobbyw8469 · #16 07-01-2019, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcat61

I always thought an altered card was worth 10% of it's original value? also though that Dr. James Beckett had all this nailed down as "industry standards"? Maybe you can help me understand something. Beckett used dealers financial accounts dent to the company to come up with a statistical formula to calculate a cards worth...is that what PSA does? Would it be a conflict of interest for PSA to grade cards and come up with a value for their graded cards in their price guide? Thanks.

Not true at all......the "altered" card arena varies in price depending upon how nice the card looks.

glynparson · #17 07-02-2019, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcat61

I always thought an altered card was worth 10% of it's original value? also though that Dr. James Beckett had all this nailed down as "industry standards"? Maybe you can help me understand something. Beckett used dealers financial accounts dent to the company to come up with a statistical formula to calculate a cards worth...is that what PSA does? Would it be a conflict of interest for PSA to grade cards and come up with a value for their graded cards in their price guide? Thanks.

BEckett has always been irrelevant in all honesty. Many cards have always sold easily for much more than their guide listed while many others sold for much less. It was never a price listing or bible despite the misuse of it by some, apparently yourself included. I predict lines will be comparable to years before if not longer.

Peter_Spaeth · #18 07-02-2019, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glynparson

BEckett has always been irrelevant in all honesty. Many cards have always sold easily for much more than their guide listed while many others sold for much less. It was never a price listing or bible despite the misuse of it by some, apparently yourself included. I predict lines will be comparable to years before if not longer.

Probably so. They have now been shown conclusively to be completely incompetent (best case scenario) and to have slabbed huge numbers of altered cards, and neither they nor most of the collecting world apparently care. And people can accept awards for their sets that, in all likelihood, are riddled with alterations.

BeanTown · #19 07-02-2019, 12:04 PM

Im old school where I remember card collecting before grading. I knew the hobby changed when there was another price guide other than Krause SCD, in graded cards called "SMR".

The Registry is what made all the difference between the grading companies along with consistant competent grading. It would have been nice to see TPGs keep to doing what they knew best. As I remember, Beckett was really good at newer shiny cards while SGC was the better company for Pre War and the first company (I believe) to grade postcards. PSA was all across the board, but did not have one area of specialty.

Now, its big business where you must have a TPG Blessing on the card to sell it, or everyone thinks its a fake, altered, and is treated like a red headed step child. Its all our fault to give such power to these TPGs who's opinion we coveth and pay dearly for.

I still own many raw ungraded cards Ive bought from the 80's and 90s. When I decide to sell them, I will choose the best grading company at that time.

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