PSA/SGC Waiting Lines At 2019 National

drcy · #1 07-03-2019, 05:20 PM

I think PSA, PWCC and Moser should all go under. PSA can be the exception only if it can entirely reform and change.

I think the grading system/business is corrupt, and is, in big part, concerned, focused and invested in things other than, and counter to, objective grading and authentication. And if it is unable or uwilling to objectively grade and authenticate, then it shouldn't be in the business . . . And that statement doesn't even touch on if they are capable of grading and authenticating.

If they were intellectually honest they would say "We have to dissolve the PSA Registry, or at least attach a big fat disclaimer to it, because these numbers are obviously not reliable and almost certainly wrong." But honesty and accuracy clearly are not essential to their business model. If they were they would have admitted long ago that the T206 Gretzky Wagner is trimmed and misgraded long. Refusing to admit the Wagner is altered and misgraded is akin to a scientific "authority" refusing to admit the earth rotates around the sun and materials are made up of atoms and molecules ("And we should trust your statements on other scientific topics why?"). And that right there is the problem.

Whether they will, or 'should' as some collectors might say, reform and change is a separate matter. Many collectors and dealers are fine with the old corrupt, and perhaps inept, grading system and want it to continue, because they also are focused and invested things other than, and counter to, objective grading and authentication. Many are literally invested in the system.

Now if PSA wishes to wholesale reform their system and model, then that would be a reasonable response I could subscribe to and support. But that would require a wholesale reform and change in philosophy. To use Thomas Kuhn's once radical and now cliched and misused terminology, it would require a paradigm change.

David Cycleback

barrysloate · #2 07-03-2019, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

I think PSA, PWCC and Moser should all go under. PSA can be the exception only if it can entirely reform and change.

I think the grading system/business is corrupt, and is, in big part, concerned, focused and invested in things other than, and counter to, objective grading and authentication. And if it is unable or uwilling to objectively grade and authenticate, then it shouldn't be in the business . . . And that statement doesn't even touch on if they are capable of grading and authenticating.

If they were intellectually honest they would say "We have to dissolve the PSA Registry, or at least attach a big fat disclaimer to it, because these numbers are obviously not reliable and almost certainly wrong." But honesty and accuracy clearly are not essential to their business model. If they were they would have admitted long ago that the T206 Gretzky Wagner is trimmed and misgraded long. Refusing to admit the Wagner is altered and misgraded is akin to a scientific "authority" refusing to admit the earth rotates around the sun and materials are made up of atoms and molecules ("And we should trust your statements on other scientific topics why?"). And that right there is the problem.

Whether they will, or 'should' as some collectors might say, reform and change is a separate matter. Many collectors and dealers are fine with the old corrupt, and perhaps inept, grading system and want it to continue, because they also are focused and invested things other than, and counter to, objective grading and authentication. Many are literally invested in the system.

Now if PSA wishes to wholesale reform their system and model, then that would be a reasonable response I could subscribe to and support. But that would require a wholesale reform and change in philosophy. To use Thomas Kuhn's once radical and now cliched and misused terminology, it would require a paradigm change.

A big +1

And David has a new ebook out on baseball card authentication. It's on my to-do list to read over the holiday weekend. Let me thank you in advance for your effort.

bnorth · #3 07-03-2019, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

A big +1

And David has a new ebook out on baseball card authentication. It's on my to-do list to read over the holiday weekend. Let me thank you in advance for your effort.

Awesome, got a link?

Tim Zwick · #4 07-03-2019, 06:40 PM

Courtesy of Al @ LOTG.....

https://online.flippingbook.com/view...70515-29356677

samosa4u · #5 07-05-2019, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Zwick

Courtesy of Al @ LOTG.....

https://online.flippingbook.com/view...70515-29356677

Awesome! Thank you so much for providing this link!

I also have to read 'Ultraviolet light and its uses' by Cycleback as well.

barrysloate · #6 07-03-2019, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Awesome, got a link?

I got an email from Love of the Game Auctions with a link.

Oops, someone already linked it.

perezfan · #7 07-03-2019, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

I think PSA, PWCC and Moser should all go under.

I think the grading system/business is corrupt, and is, in big part, concerned, focused and invested in things other than, and counter to, objective grading and authentication. And if it is unable or uwilling to objectively grade and authenticate, then it shouldn't be in the business . . . And that statement doesn't even touch on if they are capable of grading and authenticating.

My opinion and others are free to disagree.

+1... very well said.

And with regards to Bob�s lengthy post, I�m glad he shared his perspective as a CPA/Auditor. I know some of it was redundant, but there�s some great insight there. I only hope that PSA is listening and acts accordingly.

kateighty · #8 07-03-2019, 08:00 PM

While I agree with the majority of what drcy said where's the name? Am I missing something here? Leon calling me up and asking for my info was mildly (ok actually extremely) terrifying but I get it now. 2k+ posts and one like this without a name.

drcy · #9 07-03-2019, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kateighty

While I agree with the majority of what drcy said where's the name? Am I missing something here? Leon calling me up and asking for my info was mildly (ok actually extremely) terrifying but I get it now. 2k+ posts and one like this without a name.

Fair point. Added my name to the bottom of my post.

kateighty · #10 07-03-2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

Fair point. Added my name to the bottom of my post.

Awesome! You make many great points! No ill will or anything. Leon clearly has a life outside of n54 so just making sure we're all equally accountable when discussing similar points.

drcy · #11 07-03-2019, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kateighty

Awesome! You make many great points! No ill will or anything. Leon clearly has a life outside of n54 so just making sure we're all equally accountable when discussing similar points.

No offense was taken.

mechanicalman · #12 07-03-2019, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

No offense was taken.

David, congrats on your book. You have one of the best card-related names on the board. You should consider working it into your profile as you seem to express many opinions in anonymity.

Leon · #13 07-03-2019, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

David, congrats on your book. You have one of the best card-related names on the board. You should consider working it into your profile as you seem to express many opinions in anonymity.

I guess I just figured everyone knows David (hey David) but I guess not.

He has a permanent link in our archive section, of a book he wrote, and an acknowledgment for helping the forum too. But true, he should have his name out here in his posts, when he gives opinions, like everyone else..

http://www.net54baseball.com/forum/c...ivecenter.html

http://cycleback.com/cardsauthentication.pdf

And back to the topic. I heard through the grapevine that PSA is expecting a record turnout!

.

.

kateighty · #14 07-03-2019, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

David, congrats on your book. You have one of the best card-related names on the board. You should consider working it into your profile as you seem to express many opinions in anonymity.

Exactly. Don't mean to start crap anyone. I too am an author, mostly in the legal and academia arena. How is it that I felt the wrath of Leon all "KAAAAT WHO ARE YOU!? Where's your name?!!" and consequently have my name next to everything I write. But there's another author out there who has never had to have his name next to any of his 2500+ posts? Please someone fill me in.

kateighty · #15 07-03-2019, 08:43 PM

I had mine as my signature and learned it had to be under real name in my profile settings. Hope this helps.

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