New too Vintage...should I buy raw?

jared6180 · #1 07-04-2019, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

There are plenty of honest raw sellers. COMC.com is one where you can see the front and back of each card in high-res, and there's usually a large selection of the same card available.

If you're worried it's trimmed/altered, they'll review it for $2 and give you a rating of what they believe it would grade. If they find that it's altered, they'll reimburse your purchase price by emailing them.

There are other good raw sellers on this board that also sell by auction on eBay.

I had no idea comc did that and had no idea they reimbursed you if they think it�s trimmed/altered. That�s really a great service for just $2. I will give that a look! Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

swarmee · #2 07-04-2019, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jared6180

I had no idea comc did that and had no idea they reimbursed you if they think it�s trimmed/altered.

COMC Condition Reviews
Want COMC to take a closer look at your items? We will have 2-3 people independently look at the physical item and determine the condition rating of the item using industry standard terminology.
Instruction
Choose any item from your Inventory Manager and select Submit for Grading from the Actions menu. Then select COMC Condition Review and the turnaround time you prefer.
https://www.comc.com/grading

jchcollins · #3 07-05-2019, 08:37 AM

If you want to buy raw there are plenty of reputable, longtime sellers out there who can generally be trusted. My advice would be to find one with good positive feedback and establish a relationship. However if you are going for midgrade or lower anyway, many graded cards can be had for close to if not the same price as a raw example for the 3-5 range. To me, PSA is complicit in this PWCC mess until it's proven otherwise, but I think the chances of less pricey (less than $500) midgrade vintage being altered is probably pretty slim. I could be wrong. If you want to be on the safe side with graded, stick with SGC, they have the least implication in this whole mess.

mferronibc · #4 07-06-2019, 11:57 AM

Can I ask a fundamental (newb) question...with all the controversy about grading and altering vintage cards has there ever been widespread complete fraud detected? As in reprints doctored up to look old and sold as authentic? The reason I ask is per John�s point I�d much rather buy a PSA 4-5 than a raw card for the same price because to me there�s as least some guarantee the card is authentic. But that may be a naive assumption on my part: 1) are fakes a big problem in the hobby (I would assume so)? 2) does PSA even do a good job (or care for that matter) of verifying cards are authentic?

steve B · #5 07-06-2019, 02:03 PM

Certain cards do get faked, and have in the past. Most of the older ones are pretty easy to spot, and a lot of the newer ones are just printed on a home printer so they look "different". What was faked were usually the hot, high demand cards. there are a couple "sportscard counterfeit detector" books that cover almost all of those done in the late 80's/early 90's

What I'd recommend is buying a batch of cards in about mid grade that's mostly commons. Those will give you a good idea of what a real unaltered card should look and feel like. As usual, no guarantee you won't get an altered card in there, but a whole batch of altered commons would be pretty unusual - the main exception would be 71 Topps, where some people colored edge damage with a marker. I have seen batches of 1-200 of those that were all colored in. Usually it bleeds onto the edge, so a photo of the side of the stack usually makes it obvious.

lowpopper · #6 07-06-2019, 02:40 PM

Check out ROOKIE-PARADE. A large percentage of my
inventory is HIGH GRADE vintage raw. Thousands of
customers. 100% positive feedback.

I hear good things about Greg Morris auctions too
regarding nice vintage raw cards.

jared6180 · #7 07-06-2019, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowpopper

Check out ROOKIE-PARADE. A large percentage of my
inventory is HIGH GRADE vintage raw. Thousands of
customers. 100% positive feedback.

I hear good things about Greg Morris auctions too
regarding nice vintage raw cards.

My question is that if you are in possession of cards like this why not grade them?

OlderTheBetter · #8 07-07-2019, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

Certain cards do get faked, and have in the past. Most of the older ones are pretty easy to spot, and a lot of the newer ones are just printed on a home printer so they look "different". What was faked were usually the hot, high demand cards. there are a couple "sportscard counterfeit detector" books that cover almost all of those done in the late 80's/early 90's.

What is most scary to me is the very high quality of the more recent reprints. The technology is making it harder every day to spot these without a jewelers loupe and 10x magnification. The size is right -- the colors are right -- gloss perfect. They look fantastic until you observe the card back.

The back is where you can see more. Easier to copy a card front than back IMHO; getting the back's printing and colors right is no easy feat. Usually it's the ink color that is wrong but sometimes even the color of the card stock is just not right. Very scary stuff though. I can see a day in the future where 1960s Topps cards will be counterfeited so well that only the technology of the graders will detect them. I have some reprints that are just outstanding replications. Showed a couple to my local LCS owner and he was shocked at how good they've become.

steve B · #9 07-07-2019, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter

What is most scary to me is the very high quality of the more recent reprints. The technology is making it harder every day to spot these without a jewelers loupe and 10x magnification. The size is right -- the colors are right -- gloss perfect. They look fantastic until you observe the card back.

The back is where you can see more. Easier to copy a card front than back IMHO; getting the back's printing and colors right is no easy feat. Usually it's the ink color that is wrong but sometimes even the color of the card stock is just not right. Very scary stuff though. I can see a day in the future where 1960s Topps cards will be counterfeited so well that only the technology of the graders will detect them. I have some reprints that are just outstanding replications. Showed a couple to my local LCS owner and he was shocked at how good they've become.

It's already possible to reprint something exactly. But so far nobody has put in the effort.
The graders are not all that good, as you can see from how badly they miss alterations.

I'd love to see some of those really good fakes. Most of the ones I find out about are of fairly expensive cards, and I just don't have the budget to buy them.
I have one I bought a few years ago that was convincing viewed online, but not in person. (It was only $10)
It's possible there are good quality fakes coming out of China.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Vintage topps poster football lot +mickey mouse vintage ended	rjackson44	Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once.	2	07-07-2017 08:34 AM
Vintage W514, W516 and T206 Black Sox + other vintage bb cards on ebay	brianp-beme	Ebay, Auction and other Venues Announcement- B/S/T	0	03-18-2017 03:26 PM
vintage baseball hofers and vintage hockey with 69 namath ends this tuesday 10 pm	rjackson44	Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once.	5	05-30-2012 05:02 AM
beantown find, cool vintage boxing, lots of misc other vintage ending soon	uniship	Ebay, Auction and other Venues Announcement- B/S/T	0	07-06-2011 09:50 AM
Golf - Vintage 1930s-50s Vintage Photographs ending Tonight April 22nd on Ebay	D. Bergin	Hockey, Olympic, Auto Racing And All Other Cards	1	04-22-2010 07:07 AM