Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

BeanTown · #1 07-10-2019, 03:30 PM

Thanks for posting all this. Over the years I can count on one hand all my purchases with PWCC. Im scared to buy anything from PWCC at this point, and its safe to say Im done.

perezfan · #2 07-10-2019, 03:50 PM

Yes, thanks Peter, for posting that... It�s about as damning as evidence gets. I see no way that PWCC can survive this, assuming law enforcement is even somewhat monitoring this. The evidence looks irrefutable.

They ruined some truly great cards in that particular submission. And why the hell is PSA passing these cards, when over half of the submission is deemed altered? Even the most elementary system should�ve raised 15 red flags.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 07-10-2019, 03:56 PM

Yeah separate and apart from Brent and PWCC, I have often wondered why at some point if they are seeing too many altered cards in a submission they don't just punt the whole submission back, note well who the submitter is, and ban the submitter or put future subs under special scrutiny. I don't know what goes on at that company.

Exhibitman · #4 07-10-2019, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah separate and apart from Brent and PWCC, I have often wondered why at some point if they are seeing too many altered cards in a submission they don't just punt the whole submission back, note well who the submitter is, and ban the submitter or put future subs under special scrutiny. I don't know what goes on at that company.

Money, sonny. Everything is about money.

Arnold Rothstein: What's the secret of America? MONEY! Everything is MONEY, Charlie.

Steve D · #5 07-10-2019, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Yeah separate and apart from Brent and PWCC, I have often wondered why at some point if they are seeing too many altered cards in a submission they don't just punt the whole submission back, note well who the submitter is, and ban the submitter or put future subs under special scrutiny. I don't know what goes on at that company.

[QUOTE=Exhibitman;1897667]Money, sonny. Everything is about money.

Arnold Rothstein: What's the secret of America? MONEY! Everything is MONEY, Charlie.

So, they don't ban the person outright, but let them continue to submit. The TPG does however, put that person's submissions under extra special scrutiny (double-secret probation?). That way, the TPG still gets their money, even though they're sending the cards back to the person, ungraded/unslabbed.

Steve

BeanTown · #6 07-10-2019, 06:48 PM

[QUOTE=Steve D;1897703]Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Yeah separate and apart from Brent and PWCC, I have often wondered why at some point if they are seeing too many altered cards in a submission they don't just punt the whole submission back, note well who the submitter is, and ban the submitter or put future subs under special scrutiny. I don't know what goes on at that company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Money, sonny. Everything is about money.

Arnold Rothstein: What's the secret of America? MONEY! Everything is MONEY, Charlie.

So, they don't ban the person outright, but let them continue to submit. The TPG does however, put that person's submissions under extra special scrutiny (double-secret probation?). That way, the TPG still gets their money, even though they're sending the cards back to the person, ungraded/unslabbed.

Steve

Private speculation or should I say what if they submit cards in holders which the graders can recognize. Then they get stuff passed/bumped and the graders gets a special thank you at a later date.

wondo · #7 07-10-2019, 07:27 PM

[QUOTE=BeanTown;1897712]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve D

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Yeah separate and apart from Brent and PWCC, I have often wondered why at some point if they are seeing too many altered cards in a submission they don't just punt the whole submission back, note well who the submitter is, and ban the submitter or put future subs under special scrutiny. I don't know what goes on at that company.

Rumorville has it that they submit cards in holders which the graders can recognize. Then they get stuff passed/bumped and the graders gets a special thank you at a later date.

Wow - now we have hit bottom.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #8 07-10-2019, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Money, sonny. Everything is about money.

Arnold Rothstein: What's the secret of America? MONEY! Everything is MONEY, Charlie.

Yeah but a bad faith clause where they get to keep the money would solve that. To me it's incompetence from executive decision making, down to peon graders.

jackwesq · #9 07-10-2019, 10:43 PM

Hi everyone. There's a great scene in the movie Margin Call where Risk Analyst Peter Sullivan (played by Zachary Quinto) tells CEO John Tuld (played by Jeremy Irons) that if the company's assets of mortgage-backed securities were to drop by just 25% and remain on the books, that loss would be greater than the current market capitalization of the entire company.

With that in mind, I wonder if PSA were to pay out on their guarantee on every single altered card, if that payout would be greater than CLTC�s current market capitalization of $217M. Based on what I have read here and on Blowout Cards, I�m not confident it would not.

steve B · #10 07-11-2019, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackwesq

Hi everyone. There's a great scene in the movie Margin Call where Risk Analyst Peter Sullivan (played by Zachary Quinto) tells CEO John Tuld (played by Jeremy Irons) that if the company's assets of mortgage-backed securities were to drop by just 25% and remain on the books, that loss would be greater than the current market capitalization of the entire company.

With that in mind, I wonder if PSA were to pay out on their guarantee on every single altered card, if that payout would be greater than CLTC�s current market capitalization of $217M. Based on what I have read here and on Blowout Cards, I�m not confident it would not.

But they aren't paying on the guarantee. They've successfully deflected the responsibility back on the sellers, reducing their liability.

For example, card graded A =200 graded 5= 1000 graded 6= 2000

Instead of paying the owner 1800 for a card altered from a 5 to a 6, they have them return it, and maybe pay the scammer 800. Unless they have some excuse to not pay the seller, perhaps referring them back up the chain to whoever altered it who they probably don't have to pay.

Brilliant, but scummy.

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