N284 Buchner Gold Coin Checklist Add?

[RCMcKenzie]

"A little learning is a dangerous thing. Drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring."

Here's a 78 Topps Bartkowski, a T213-3 Matty, and a Buchner at 1200 dpi. The OP could buy a Buchner and compare it to what he has under a magnifying glass. It may not be definitive, but it's better than nothing.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Here's...a Buchner at 1200 dpi. The OP could buy a Buchner and compare it to what he has under a magnifying glass. It may not be definitive, but it's better than nothing.

With this close of a detailed look that RC provided I think it can be ascertained that the Buchner Boy has either Small Pox or Measles. Perhaps Frank, MD. can make the final determination.

Brian

[steve B]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

"A little learning is a dangerous thing. Drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring."

Here's a 78 Topps Bartkowski, a T213-3 Matty, and a Buchner at 1200 dpi. The OP could buy a Buchner and compare it to what he has under a magnifying glass. It may not be definitive, but it's better than nothing.

That's basically the three generations of lithography right there.

Buchner - essentially hand done stippling for everything. If there's a dot pattern, it's almost entirely random. Fairly transparent solid colors for mixing.

T206 - A bit of a hybrid. Modern style halftone in black, but with backgrounds that are mostly the same as the earlier style. The modern halftone would have been generated photographically with a screen. Most use more than 6 colors

78 Topps - Nearly all halftone, generated photographically using color filters. Only four colors, CMYK and a finer tighter screen than they used in 1910. A few solid areas, mostly borders etc. But those are done on the same negative as the original screen.

Newer stuff will have screening that's even finer, but it's essentially the same.

There's subtle stuff you can't see well if at all in scans, like how thick/thin the ink lays on the paper, or which layers are over what other layers. Sometimes that's even hard to tell in person.

[teza11]

I originally started this thread to try and figure out what a handful of un-checklisted N284 Buchner (like) cards might be. Yes…there were 3…and I randomly chose the Toole card as the example to share. My focus is non-sports, but I like Buchner cards in general, so when I came across this baseball grouping I was interested in learning more about them especially since the lot may include a few cards (or cut-outs) that nobody has seen before.

The total collection had over 60 cards in it. All cards had evidence of album removal, usual age toning, and as an overall group just looked right to me. All but 5 of the cards were non-sports. The 5 sports cards looked like N284’s; 1 with the standard printed back, 4 with blank backs. 2 of the 5 cards appear on current N284 checklists.

As I mentioned above, my original post was in search of information. I never said that the Toole card was mine. The collection of 60+ cards were a part of a smaller, regional, usually non-card auction house’s “active” offering. I know that others on this board were aware of the active listing status through pm, but I wasn’t going to out this active listing in this thread. I’m sure you get that.

All I had to go by were the same pictures you looked at (plus the others I did not post), some basic size and provenance info passed along by the auction house, and your expert opinions. I did not have a dog in this fight and could have easily opted out of participating in the auction if there was clear, convincing evidence of “fake” work in-play.

I wasn’t convinced of that, and actually think that one poster here may have had ulterior motives, working really hard to convince the Net54 baseball community that the Toole card wasn’t from the late 1880’s. I suspect that he was aware of the active listing.

Below are pictures of all 5 Buchner (or Buchner like) cards or cut-outs that were in the auction. Originally the auction house only posted one backside pic, and that was of the printed back, so I assumed wrong in my original post that the others were the same. I’ve also included a few of the non-sport images.

Jeff

[Cozumeleno]

Jeff -

Thanks a lot for clarifying and adding some context here. The ongoing auction obviously makes it clear why you could not respond sooner.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I only see one of the five cards (Peoples) that is cataloged in comparing the cards posted on OC's site here. The Peoples is the lone checklisted card that I see on OC's page and that makes sense given that his is the one with the ad back (assuming that one belongs to him). Which is the second card you believe is currently checklisted?

I did not suspect foul play here before and, as stated, I disagreed with others and believed the Toole was probably legit. Seeing the others here with some better images only reinforces that for me. My guess is that these are among the many poster cuts that have been found to date that I mentioned earlier in this thread. Like I stated then, there are several different types of them and we can't possibly presume to know everything about them. Appreciate you sharing them on the board.

[RCMcKenzie]

I was wrong. You were able to clear it up with one post. The Smiling Mickey Welch has an "A" series ad back and is unknown. Am I seeing that correctly? It would be worth a lot of money. Did you win the lot? Jonathan? Wish I could have bid. Rob

[RCMcKenzie]

The catalogued one has the ad back I think now. The Peoples one...

[teza11]

Both Peoples and Phillips appear on the Old Cardboard site checklist. Peoples is the card with backside advertising.

(104) Jimmy Peoples Catcher Brooklyn A
(106) Bill Phillips 1st Base Brooklyn A

Yes...I did win the auction. I'd be happy to let Jay take a look at the group and report back to the forum once I get them in hand.

Jeff

[RCMcKenzie]

The blank back ones will match up with the McClellan, if it's still around, is my guess. I would guess the McClellan should be checklisted with these as some unknown, semi-related set of their own, as said before, probably ad poster cuts from the period.

I have not received the Slocum book, I assume there is not a picture of the back of the McClellan in it. This board would be hoppin' if they were T206 like the ones Olbermann or Charlie Sheen or whomever has...Rob