PWCC Huigens Now Has a Criminal Defense Attorney

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

All I can say to this is I’m sure 99% of you wish you were in the financial position he is. I’m not bragging because I’m sure he could care less what any of you think but again, he did not take this case for the fee. As hard as this may be to do, try and think through how this problem would have played out without his involvement. Like all of the others maybe? People are getting paid back for altered cards, stories are getting written in national papers, and so on. Do you think with any of your involvement this could have happened? Is it better nothing gets done or all of us just complaining on message boards?

I appreciated what you're saying. I think it just stings some of us because he is so passionate about cards and knows EXACTLY what Brent Mastro was up to. To have him on THAT side of this fiasco is a tough BITTER pill to swallow for me. It's total BS.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I appreciated what you're saying. I think it just stings some of us because he is so passionate about cards and knows EXACTLY what Brent Mastro was up to. To have him on THAT side of this fiasco is a tough BITTER pill to swallow for me. It's total BS.

Chuck, I totally understand that it feels very tough to accept but is the goal to punish Brent to the fullest extent the government wants to (and who knows what that is if anything?) or is it to try and solve the bigger problem and in addition try to get those affected their money back?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Chuck, I totally understand that it feels very tough to accept but is the goal to punish Brent to the fullest extent the government wants to (and who knows what that is if anything?) or is it to try and solve the bigger problem and in addition try to get those affected their money back?

How are you defining the bigger problem? And what do you suggest can possibly remediate it?

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How are you defining the bigger problem? And what do you suggest can possibly remediate it?

From my vantage point scammers like Brent and Moser will always exist especially in an industry that is not regulated and does not appear to be on any governmental radar to be regulated in the near future. That being said, getting rid of Brent and Moser just gives you personal satisfaction but next month you have Trent and Hoser doing the same thing so you’re back to square one.

To me the bigger question lies with how are these cards getting slabbed by TPG’s? Are they just incompetent, paid off, or what? Why isn’t every card scanned when graded so when it comes back in altered it quickly shows up as previously graded? What responsibility do TPG’s have to honor their guarantees? If they are not and instead are giving people the runaround is someone going to legally challenge them? Is that all in the works? Are attorneys already engaged and preparing lawsuits?

All I know is it’s probably unrealistic to expect that 100% of altered cards are going to get caught by the TPG’s but aren’t we at a point where obviously altered cards are getting through with no issue. Can Brent help shed light on how that is happening? Does he have information that it’s anything other than incompetence? I have no idea but I’d sure like to find out.

And even if it is just incompetence isn’t it time TPG’s shouldn’t be able to hide behind self serving statements? Is someone going to hold them accountable? If there are better mechanisms in place to detect fraud does it ultimately matter if a few cards get through? Does Macy’s know a couple percentage of their sales is going to be lost to various theft? Does that mean that they still don’t do everything they can to stop it? Are TPG’s?

As nauseating as Brent is, who is the bigger problem him or Steve Sloan who is putting out embarrassing statements. Do you think he’s trying to help you?

If in the end Brent can help shed some light on these topics and in return gets treated favorably isn’t that a better result than him going to jail forever and nothing else changing? And in no way am I insinuating any of things are happening or will happen but don’t you think if they could that would be a better result?

Feel free to shoot away.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

From my vantage point scammers like Brent and Moser will always exist especially in an industry that is not regulated and does not appear to be on any governmental radar to be regulated in the near future. That being said, getting rid of Brent and Moser just gives you personal satisfaction but next month you have Trent and Hoser doing the same thing so you’re back to square one.

To me the bigger question lies with how are these cards getting slabbed by TPG’s? Are they just incompetent, paid off, or what? Why isn’t every card scanned when graded so when it comes back in altered it quickly shows up as previously graded? What responsibility do TPG’s have to honor their guarantees? If they are not and instead are giving people the runaround is someone going to legally challenge them? Is that all in the works? Are attorneys already engaged and preparing lawsuits?

All I know is it’s probably unrealistic to expect that 100% of altered cards are going to get caught by the TPG’s but aren’t we at a point where obviously altered cards are getting through with no issue. Can Brent help shed light on how that is happening? Does he have information that it’s anything other than incompetence? I have no idea but I’d sure like to find out.

And even if it is just incompetence isn’t it time TPG’s shouldn’t be able to hide behind self serving statements? Is someone going to hold them accountable? If there are better mechanisms in place to detect fraud does it ultimately matter if a few cards get through? Does Macy’s know a couple percentage of their sales is going to be lost to various theft? Does that mean that they still don’t do everything they can to stop it? Are TPG’s?

As nauseating as Brent is, who is the bigger problem him or Steve Sloan who is putting out embarrassing statements. Do you think he’s trying to help you?

If in the end Brent can help shed some light on these topics and in return gets treated favorably isn’t that a better result than him going to jail forever and nothing else changing? And in no way am I insinuating any of things are happening or will happen but don’t you think if they could that would be a better result?

Feel free to shoot away.

Steven thank you for these observations. A couple of reactions. One, Brent's bad activities are so diverse and of such long duration that he is not just the fraudster du jour, he may well be the hobby fraudster of all time when all is said and done. So while yes to some extent my belief that he needs to be punished is colored by my personal disgust towards him, I think an important message needs to be sent to everyone else doing similar shit on a smaller scale. If he pays some restitution and walks, that will not send a message, IMO.

Two, that said, I obviously agree with you that PSA and to a lesser extent the other TPGs have been revealed to be a huge part of the problem. And something clearly needs to be done to bust through the veil of secrecy and denial and disingenuous bullshit they and their supporters keep spewing. But -- and obviously you may have insight where I don't -- do you really see Brent being able to take down PSA? I mean if he was buying graders and is going to confess, that would be one thing, but I would find that hard to believe. Interested in your thoughts on how he could do that otherwise.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Steven thank you for these observations. A couple of reactions. One, Brent's bad activities are so diverse and of such long duration that he is not just the fraudster du jour, he may well be the hobby fraudster of all time when all is said and done. So while yes to some extent my belief that he needs to be punished is colored by my personal disgust towards him, I think an important message needs to be sent to everyone else doing similar shit on a smaller scale. If he pays some restitution and walks, that will not send a message, IMO.

Two, that said, I obviously agree with you that PSA and to a lesser extent the other TPGs have been revealed to be a huge part of the problem. And something clearly needs to be done to bust through the veil of secrecy and denial and disingenuous bullshit they and their supporters keep spewing. But -- and obviously you may have insight where I don't -- do you really see Brent being able to take down PSA? I mean if he was buying graders and is going to confess, that would be one thing, but I would find that hard to believe. Interested in your thoughts on how he could do that otherwise.

Peter, you’re an attorney and must have much more of an ability than someone like I do to look through the forest and see the bigger picture. While we all want to see Brent rot in hell, if we take a step back whether we are buying $20 cards, $200, $2000, $20,000, $200,000 or whatever, we want to feel confident we’re getting what we paid for. As a novice collector I relied on those slabs to guide me, foolishly thinking TPG’s were there to protect me and the investment (cringe) I was making. Obviously I was wrong.

Now I don’t know what Brent knows or doesn’t know. Does he have something on TPG’s or are they just incompetent? If they’re just incompetent are we just supposed to accept that or are there things that can happen to make them accountable for their actions? I know everyone believes this is going to be like every other time something like this has happened in the industry but I don’t believe it will be. It’s only been a couple of months and far more has happened than anyone could have imagined and yet it’s still met with plenty of ambivalence and scorn. It’s a tough crowd to please because we all want it both ways: the perpetrators to pay the maximum price and the problem (grading cards properly) to get improved. Only time will tell how it all will play out but I think if we can somehow look at it objectively, winning one of the battles has far more value than the other. Again, tough to do, but the bigger picture is far more important.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Peter, you’re an attorney and must have much more of an ability than someone like I do to look through the forest and see the bigger picture. While we all want to see Brent rot in hell, if we take a step back whether we are buying $20 cards, $200, $2000, $20,000, $200,000 or whatever, we want to feel confident we’re getting what we paid for. As a novice collector I relied on those slabs to guide me, foolishly thinking TPG’s were there to protect me and the investment (cringe) I was making. Obviously I was wrong.

Now I don’t know what Brent knows or doesn’t know. Does he have something on TPG’s or are they just incompetent? If they’re just incompetent are we just supposed to accept that or are there things that can happen to make them accountable for their actions? I know everyone believes this is going to be like every other time something like this has happened in the industry but I don’t believe it will be. It’s only been a couple of months and far more has happened than anyone could have imagined and yet it’s still met with plenty of ambivalence and scorn. It’s a tough crowd to please because we all want it both ways: the perpetrators to pay the maximum price and the problem (grading cards properly) to get improved. Only time will tell how it all will play out but I think if we can somehow look at it objectively, winning one of the battles has far more value than the other. Again, tough to do, but the bigger picture is far more important.

Steven I'll accept your premise that PSA is the bigger problem, or the TPGs as a whole. Especially after Orlando's statement today I could not be more disgusted with PSA. It was far worse than Sloan's. And of course I understand that in many cases the government will make a relatively soft deal with a cooperator to get at the more important criminal. I'm just not seeing how going easy on Brent helps the goal of going after PSA. But I'll reflect on it.

One footnote though -- it still takes card doctors and their enablers to bring these cards to market. So it's not like the biggest seller of doctored cards on the planet, and card uhh uhhh conservator himself, isn't still a huge problem.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Only time will tell how it all will play out but I think if we can somehow look at it objectively, winning one of the battles has far more value than the other. Again, tough to do, but the bigger picture is far more important.

Suppose, hypothetically, you have people deliberately committing fraud and making huge amounts of money by purposely altering cards and then selling them (at inflated prices) into the mainstream of the hobby, most to never be identified as altered, and on the other hand, you have a few TPG who miss some alterations now and then, which battle is more important to win? Nailing the people who are knowingly initiating this whole mess by committing fraud, or the TPGs who try their best, but sometimes let bad cards through?

It would be nice if the TPG were perfect, but at least they are honestly trying. There is nothing honest about those who are altering and selling cards for fun and profit. Beating the criminals is the battle to win.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Peter, you’re an attorney and must have much more of an ability than someone like I do to look through the forest and see the bigger picture. While we all want to see Brent rot in hell, if we take a step back whether we are buying $20 cards, $200, $2000, $20,000, $200,000 or whatever, we want to feel confident we’re getting what we paid for. As a novice collector I relied on those slabs to guide me, foolishly thinking TPG’s were there to protect me and the investment (cringe) I was making. Obviously I was wrong.

Now I don’t know what Brent knows or doesn’t know. Does he have something on TPG’s or are they just incompetent? If they’re just incompetent are we just supposed to accept that or are there things that can happen to make them accountable for their actions? I know everyone believes this is going to be like every other time something like this has happened in the industry but I don’t believe it will be. It’s only been a couple of months and far more has happened than anyone could have imagined and yet it’s still met with plenty of ambivalence and scorn. It’s a tough crowd to please because we all want it both ways: the perpetrators to pay the maximum price and the problem (grading cards properly) to get improved. Only time will tell how it all will play out but I think if we can somehow look at it objectively, winning one of the battles has far more value than the other. Again, tough to do, but the bigger picture is far more important.

Agree with everything here Georgie my boy. We shall see when Brent Mastro and PSA square off in court, won't we?

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

From my vantage point scammers like Brent and Moser will always exist especially in an industry that is not regulated and does not appear to be on any governmental radar to be regulated in the near future. That being said, getting rid of Brent and Moser just gives you personal satisfaction but next month you have Trent and Hoser doing the same thing so you’re back to square one.

To me the bigger question lies with how are these cards getting slabbed by TPG’s? Are they just incompetent, paid off, or what? Why isn’t every card scanned when graded so when it comes back in altered it quickly shows up as previously graded? What responsibility do TPG’s have to honor their guarantees? If they are not and instead are giving people the runaround is someone going to legally challenge them? Is that all in the works? Are attorneys already engaged and preparing lawsuits?

All I know is it’s probably unrealistic to expect that 100% of altered cards are going to get caught by the TPG’s but aren’t we at a point where obviously altered cards are getting through with no issue. Can Brent help shed light on how that is happening? Does he have information that it’s anything other than incompetence? I have no idea but I’d sure like to find out.

And even if it is just incompetence isn’t it time TPG’s shouldn’t be able to hide behind self serving statements? Is someone going to hold them accountable? If there are better mechanisms in place to detect fraud does it ultimately matter if a few cards get through? Does Macy’s know a couple percentage of their sales is going to be lost to various theft? Does that mean that they still don’t do everything they can to stop it? Are TPG’s?

As nauseating as Brent is, who is the bigger problem him or Steve Sloan who is putting out embarrassing statements. Do you think he’s trying to help you?

If in the end Brent can help shed some light on these topics and in return gets treated favorably isn’t that a better result than him going to jail forever and nothing else changing? And in no way am I insinuating any of things are happening or will happen but don’t you think if they could that would be a better result?

Feel free to shoot away.

Interesting. My partners and I were eating lunch yesterday, and we were approached by a lawyer who we are sometimes against, who also sometimes sends us bad faith cases. I went to refill ice tea and when I came back, he asked me what I thought about Beckett. My partners had told him while I was gone that I collected cards. In any event, he asked me what I thought about Beckett and I gave him the short version of what I know was being currently alleged about Beckett's involvement in the scandal. He then told me he was getting ready to sue Beckett over some issues involving that issue. I we shall see if that actually occurs. Since Beckett is diverse, I am assuming that if the suit actually occurs that will be either filed in, or removed to, the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Oklahoma. Perfect venue.

[Rickyy]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

To me the bigger question lies with how are these cards getting slabbed by TPG’s? Are they just incompetent, paid off, or what? Why isn’t every card scanned when graded so when it comes back in altered it quickly shows up as previously graded? What responsibility do TPG’s have to honor their guarantees? If they are not and instead are giving people the runaround is someone going to legally challenge them? Is that all in the works? Are attorneys already engaged and preparing lawsuits?

All I know is it’s probably unrealistic to expect that 100% of altered cards are going to get caught by the TPG’s but aren’t we at a point where obviously altered cards are getting through with no issue. Can Brent help shed light on how that is happening? Does he have information that it’s anything other than incompetence? I have no idea but I’d sure like to find out.

And even if it is just incompetence isn’t it time TPG’s shouldn’t be able to hide behind self serving statements? Is someone going to hold them accountable? If there are better mechanisms in place to detect fraud does it ultimately matter if a few cards get through? Does Macy’s know a couple percentage of their sales is going to be lost to various theft? Does that mean that they still don’t do everything they can to stop it? Are TPG’s?

Feel free to shoot away.

[QUOTE=CuriousGeorge;1902336]


Aside from the PWCC fiasco, the integrity of the TPG's was already in question especially when the info came out about the famous Wagner being trimmed...but the grade was never changed.....and yet they continue to survive...

Ricky Y

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Chuck, I totally understand that it feels very tough to accept but is the goal to punish Brent to the fullest extent the government wants to (and who knows what that is if anything?) or is it to try and solve the bigger problem and in addition try to get those affected their money back?

Maybe you missed my earlier post. I'll ask again. Why is Jeff so concerned about getting restitution for those affected? Did he champion the cause for restitution for El Chapo's victims? Sure, many of them were from rival cartels, but many innocent people were killed too. What about restitution for the victims families?

Good ol' Jeff...always thinking about compensation for others. How selfless?

Edited to add: And, from what I understand, Brent was already refunding people even before being represented by Jeff. If I'm wrong, correct me on that. If I'm right, stop bullshitting that it's because of Jeff's involvement.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Maybe you missed my earlier post. I'll ask again. Why is Jeff so concerned about getting restitution for those affected? Did he champion the cause for restitution for El Chapo's victims? Sure, many of them were from rival cartels, but many innocent people were killed too. What about restitution for the victims families?

Good ol' Jeff...always thinking about compensation for others. How selfless?

Edited to add: And, from what I understand, Brent was already refunding people even before being represented by Jeff. If I'm wrong, correct me on that. If I'm right, stop bullshitting that it's because of Jeff's involvement.

El Chapo was not a cooperator. David, stick to what you know.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

El Chapo was not a cooperator. David, stick to what you know.

The silence would be deafening

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The silence would be deafening

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

LOL, Ted my friend you are killing me.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

El Chapo was not a cooperator. David, stick to what you know.

Are you really a lawyer or are you bullshitting us? Last I read, El Chapo forfeited 14 Billion dollars upon convition.
Congress has always supported the idea that criminal proceeds go to the victims famalies.

I may not be a lawyer, but I obviously know a hell of a lot more than you on this subject. Now, stick to what you know!

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Are you really a lawyer or are you bullshitting us? Last I read, El Chapo forfeited 14 Billion dollars upon convition.
Congress has always supported the idea that criminal proceeds go to the victims famalies.

I may not be a lawyer, but I obviously know a hell of a lot more than you on this subject. Now, stick to what you know!

You are a complete and utter dope. I can certainly understand where an attorney might have enthusiasm to help the other side when his alternative would be to help you.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Are you really a lawyer or are you bullshitting us? Last I read, El Chapo forfeited 14 Billion dollars upon convition.
Congress has always supported the idea that criminal proceeds go to the victims famalies.

I may not be a lawyer, but I obviously know a hell of a lot more than you on this subject. Now, stick to what you know!

Seriously? There is a forfeiture order. Do you really think that is collectible? Come on. Even you should know better than that.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Do you really think that is collectible?

Honestly, I don't know. It would seem one of the senators from my home state believes so, go check out the El Chapo Act. Maybe it dies in the senate, maybe not, but again I don't know.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Are you really a lawyer or are you bullshitting us? Last I read, El Chapo forfeited 14 Billion dollars upon convition.
Congress has always supported the idea that criminal proceeds go to the victims famalies.

I may not be a lawyer, but I obviously know a hell of a lot more than you on this subject. Now, stick to what you know!

I am well aware of the forfeiture. So what? You were talking about Jeff. For a defense lawyer it's a completely different situation representing a cooperator where one of your bargaining chips might be restitution, and defending someone in a trial where it's completely adversarial. Now, back to where you came. Please.

[CuriousGeorge]

For whatever it’s worth there’s a forfeiture in place for $12.7B. Amount collected thus far after years of searching: 0.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Maybe you missed my earlier post. I'll ask again. Why is Jeff so concerned about getting restitution for those affected? Did he champion the cause for restitution for El Chapo's victims? Sure, many of them were from rival cartels, but many innocent people were killed too. What about restitution for the victims families?

Good ol' Jeff...always thinking about compensation for others. How selfless?

Edited to add: And, from what I understand, Brent was already refunding people even before being represented by Jeff. If I'm wrong, correct me on that. If I'm right, stop bullshitting that it's because of Jeff's involvement.

Don’t post here a lot so please take this question at face value....

Why is this so personal for you? I see a lot of people disappointed with this
representation but it seems to bother you on a whole different level.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Chuck, I totally understand that it feels very tough to accept but is the goal to punish Brent to the fullest extent the government wants to (and who knows what that is if anything?) or is it to try and solve the bigger problem and in addition try to get those affected their money back?

I want that website and his business SHUTDOWN and him kicked out of the hobby. I also would like him to face tax evasion charges. Your brother is not a tax attorney so he'll need someone else for that too. The hobby is and will be infected with 100's of thousands of tainted cards, IMHO.

Jeff ain't FIXIN nuttin PERIOD

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I want that website and his business SHUTDOWN and him kicked out of the hobby. I also would like him to face tax evasion charges. Your brother is not a tax attorney so he'll need someone else for that too. The hobby is and will be infected with 100's of thousands of tainted cards, IMHO.

Jeff ain't FIXIN nuttin PERIOD

My understanding is that unlike in the securities area where the government has specific authority to seek relief barring people from the securities industry or barring individuals who commit securities fraud from serving as officers of publicly traded companies, the government does not have similar authority in other lines of business. It would have to be part of a plea bargain, and seems unlikely here.

[judsonhamlin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My understanding is that unlike in the securities area where the government has specific authority to seek relief barring people from the securities industry or barring individuals who commit securities fraud from serving as officers of publicly traded companies, the government does not have similar authority in other lines of business. It would have to be part of a plea bargain, and seems unlikely here.

Wouldn't any revocation of his Auctioneer's License have to either be a condition of a plea or upon independent action by the Oregon AG/Dep't. Of State/other licensing agency?
Has anyone reached out to the State of Oregon on this?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin

Wouldn't any revocation of his Auctioneer's License have to either be a condition of a plea or upon independent action by the Oregon AG/Dep't. Of State/other licensing agency?
Has anyone reached out to the State of Oregon on this?

No response from Oregon, according to someone who reached out some time ago.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No response from Oregon, according to someone who reached out some time ago.

A quick google search indicates you only need an auction license for certain types of items in Oregon. Liquor and livestock.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin

Wouldn't any revocation of his Auctioneer's License have to either be a condition of a plea or upon independent action by the Oregon AG/Dep't. Of State/other licensing agency?
Has anyone reached out to the State of Oregon on this?

Does he do auctioneering beyond ebay? Nobody needs a license to auction items off on ebay.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Does he do auctioneering beyond ebay? Nobody needs a license to auction items off on ebay.

Not quite that black and white. If you are a registered business using ebay as an auction platform to sell consigned goods in PA you are supposed to have a license. I am sure some other states are similar, and I'm sure it gets ignored, a LOT.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin

Wouldn't any revocation of his Auctioneer's License have to either be a condition of a plea or upon independent action by the Oregon AG/Dep't. Of State/other licensing agency?
Has anyone reached out to the State of Oregon on this?

Oregon only requires a license for certain types of auctions (livestock is one) I imagine Brent is not a licensed auctioneer.

EDIT: Dan beat me to it.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My understanding is that unlike in the securities area where the government has specific authority to seek relief barring people from the securities industry or barring individuals who commit securities fraud from serving as officers of publicly traded companies, the government does not have similar authority in other lines of business. It would have to be part of a plea bargain, and seems unlikely here.

It's going to boil down to Calvindog suing PSA anyway so I'll just wait for that by the end of the year. I guaran f en tee it.

A nice waste of money for all parties involved.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

A nice waste of money for all parties involved.

Naw, the lawyers will make out nicely.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

It's going to boil down to Calvindog suing PSA anyway so I'll just wait for that by the end of the year. I guaran f en tee it.

A nice waste of money for all parties involved.

Chuck, if it’s not your money why would you care?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Chuck, if it’s not your money why would you care?

Steven,

I have bought many high end cards from your brother over the years, I know this must be a tough time for both of you guys. But in the midst of this thread, there really hasn't been any clarification on Jeff's part pertaining what I'm about to ask.... If he is indeed looking to rectify a problem for collectors, isn't he in fact violating client privilege, or is Huigens pleading the fifth?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Chuck, if it’s not your money why would you care?

We all pay more in higher prices?

You're right, I really don't give a rats ass as I'll never purchase another card from this crooked industry again. You got me there. I just enjoy watching people flush money down the toilet with attorney fees, that's all.

That's why I run a clean business with integrity. It has served me very well financially. Funny when you work with integrity you don't need a criminal attorney, though my best friend is one. Look me up as I'm sure many other haters have. You'll find a speeding ticket in 2009.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I want that website and his business SHUTDOWN and him kicked out of the hobby. I also would like him to face tax evasion charges. Your brother is not a tax attorney so he'll need someone else for that too. The hobby is and will be infected with 100's of thousands of tainted cards, IMHO.

Jeff ain't FIXIN nuttin PERIOD

If he is in fact selling the promissory notes described on his website, and has not (as has been claimed) registered them with the SEC, he may also be involved in the unlawful sale of unregistered securities as they would appear to be above the regulatory threshold.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I appreciated what you're saying. I think it just stings some of us because he is so passionate about cards and knows EXACTLY what Brent Mastro was up to. To have him on THAT side of this fiasco is a tough BITTER pill to swallow for me. It's total BS.

I think I will the go with the suggestion that we wait and see. I am also not happy that Jeff agreed to represent PWCC, and I very much hope that Brent goes down in flames. But, as has been said before, wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one is filled first.