PWCC Huigens Now Has a Criminal Defense Attorney

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

All the more accommodating to the bad actors doing crap to cards ....they’re not making it more difficulty they’re leaving the door wide open ....

If I leave the door of my house wide open and somebody walks in and robs me, that makes me careless and the other guy a thief. Which is worse?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Mark17

If I leave the door of my house wide open and somebody walks in and robs me, that makes me careless and the other guy a thief. Which is worse?

I’m not gonna argue with you it’s like talking to a brick wall.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I’m not gonna argue with you it’s like talking to a brick wall.

I'm not a huge fan of TPG but when you put them next to outright criminals who are profiting hugely by creating this mess in the first place, it seems rather obvious which is the bigger problem.

Brick wall, indeed!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I'm not a huge fan of TPG but when you put them next to outright criminals who are profiting hugely by creating this mess in the first place, it seems rather obvious which is the bigger problem.

Brick wall, indeed!

That was my initial perspective. I always knew TPGs missed a lot, but I attributed that mostly to the skill of the card doctors. I have suspected TPGs of preferential grading for a long time, but not being complicit in slabbing bad cards.

After what I've seen, and knowing that outed Moser-Huigens cards are just the tip of the iceberg, and seeing the nonsense that has come out of PSA in the form of Sloan's and Orlando's statements, my perspective has changed. PSA, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem, and I no longer trust their good faith. I'm not letting the others off the hook, just that SGC has a small relative market share and I don't care about Beckett. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

[barrysloate]

I've said it before and will repeat: I don't think PSA really minds a proliferation of high grade cards in circulation. The set registry is their bread and butter, and you need a large population of high grade cards so that everybody can play. Perhaps it's in their best interest to turn a blind eye to all these altered cards. If high grade cards were genuinely hard to find, it would hurt the registry game.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That was my initial perspective. I always knew TPGs missed a lot, but I attributed that mostly to the skill of the card doctors. I have suspected TPGs of preferential grading for a long time, but not being complicit in slabbing bad cards.

After what I've seen, and knowing that outed Moser-Huigens cards are just the tip of the iceberg, and seeing the nonsense that has come out of PSA in the form of Sloan's and Orlando's statements, my perspective has changed. PSA, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem, and I no longer trust their good faith. I'm not letting the others off the hook, just that SGC has a small relative market share and I don't care about Beckett. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Peter, after a lengthy debate awhile ago regarding the criminality of the actions of card doctors, I concluded you were correct, and you won me over to your way of looking at it.

I leave the door open to the possibility that as this plays out, I may also conclude that PSA is more culpable in this mess than I currently believe.

This is the process I like about these chat boards... they help my thinking evolve.

I have my popcorn; let the next act of this opera begin.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Peter, after a lengthy debate awhile ago regarding the criminality of the actions of card doctors, I concluded you were correct, and you won me over to your way of looking at it.

I leave the door open to the possibility that as this plays out, I may also conclude that PSA is more culpable in this mess than I currently believe.

This is the process I like about these chat boards... they help my thinking evolve.

I have my popcorn; let the next act of this opera begin.

As the pile of altered cards in slabs gets higher and higher, and I extrapolate to what the real pile must look like, and I see PSA's comments, I just have a harder and harder time buying the good faith theory that I know I was espousing myself earlier.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As the pile of altered cards in slabs gets higher and higher, and I extrapolate to what the real pile must look like, and I see PSA's comments, I just have a harder and harder time buying the good faith theory that I know I was espousing myself earlier.

The problem lies with the masses who either don't know what's going on or don't care!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Peter, after a lengthy debate awhile ago regarding the criminality of the actions of card doctors, I concluded you were correct, and you won me over to your way of looking at it.

I leave the door open to the possibility that as this plays out, I may also conclude that PSA is more culpable in this mess than I currently believe.

This is the process I like about these chat boards... they help my thinking evolve.

I have my popcorn; let the next act of this opera begin.

How dare you keep an open mind...

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That was my initial perspective. I always knew TPGs missed a lot, but I attributed that mostly to the skill of the card doctors. I have suspected TPGs of preferential grading for a long time, but not being complicit in slabbing bad cards.

After what I've seen, and knowing that outed Moser-Huigens cards are just the tip of the iceberg, and seeing the nonsense that has come out of PSA in the form of Sloan's and Orlando's statements, my perspective has changed. PSA, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem, and I no longer trust their good faith. I'm not letting the others off the hook, just that SGC has a small relative market share and I don't care about Beckett. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

+1 been saying for the past few months 100% agree Peter

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That was my initial perspective. I always knew TPGs missed a lot, but I attributed that mostly to the skill of the card doctors. I have suspected TPGs of preferential grading for a long time, but not being complicit in slabbing bad cards.

After what I've seen, and knowing that outed Moser-Huigens cards are just the tip of the iceberg, and seeing the nonsense that has come out of PSA in the form of Sloan's and Orlando's statements, my perspective has changed. PSA, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem, and I no longer trust their good faith. I'm not letting the others off the hook, just that SGC has a small relative market share and I don't care about Beckett. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Why would you not care about Beckett? There is likely more evidence they have someone inside giving preferential treatment than there is at PSA.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Why would you not care about Beckett? There is likely more evidence they have someone inside giving preferential treatment than there is at PSA.

Just a selfish perspective I guess, I only have a few Beckett cards and doubt I would buy any more except cheap modern ones. It would not surprise me at all if they were the most tainted of all though in light of what I've read.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That was my initial perspective. I always knew TPGs missed a lot, but I attributed that mostly to the skill of the card doctors. I have suspected TPGs of preferential grading for a long time, but not being complicit in slabbing bad cards.

After what I've seen, and knowing that outed Moser-Huigens cards are just the tip of the iceberg, and seeing the nonsense that has come out of PSA in the form of Sloan's and Orlando's statements, my perspective has changed. PSA, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem, and I no longer trust their good faith. I'm not letting the others off the hook, just that SGC has a small relative market share and I don't care about Beckett. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Why would you trust a corporation when the sh*t hits the fan? Why would you think a public corporation in the service business is all about the customer? Why would you just now.... never mind. Stuff trumps all.

Too many rodeos for me. Glad I cashed most of my graded stuff a few years ago. Glad I held on to my ungraded altered Billy Ripkin cards. At least they are funny.