Darren's Rovell take on PWCC, etc.

Just.Rachel · #1 07-27-2019, 09:28 AM

You make good points. Someday I would like to buy you a beer, sir.

I soooo want some of these jerkwads do to some time, to face penalties severe enough to deter anyone in the future from following in their footsteps. But that's what I see as most important.

PSA needs to get their act together, and they're not the only TPG with issues. I can see how publicity might force that issue. Right now, they have a line out the door and around the corner of people trying to hand them money for their services, and apparently they are arrogant enough (as evidenced by Mr Orlando's disrespectful statement) to think they can just issue a blanket Eff U to the hobby and still have that line waiting next month. Maybe he's right, idk. I hope not though.

As far as the Moser/pwcc thing, hopefully the authorities will get it cleaned up. I'm not sure how publicity helps them do that. But demand for PSA can only be lessened through publicity, and only a lessening of demand will bring reform. In that, I agree and see your point.

Thanks for the answer. You gave me things to consider that hadn't previously occurred to me.

Smiles....

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

perezfan · #2 07-27-2019, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just.Rachel

You make good points. Someday I would like to buy you a beer, sir.

I soooo want some of these jerkwads do to some time, to face penalties severe enough to deter anyone in the future from following in their footsteps. But that's what I see as most important.

PSA needs to get their act together, and they're not the only TPG with issues. I can see how publicity might force that issue. Right now, they have a line out the door and around the corner of people trying to hand them money for their services, and apparently they are arrogant enough (as evidenced by Mr Orlando's disrespectful statement) to think they can just issue a blanket Eff U to the hobby and still have that line waiting next month. Maybe he's right, idk. I hope not though.

As far as the Moser/pwcc thing, hopefully the authorities will get it cleaned up. I'm not sure how publicity helps them do that. But demand for PSA can only be lessened through publicity, and only a lessening of demand will bring reform. In that, I agree and see your point.

Thanks for the answer. You gave me things to consider that hadn't previously occurred to me.

Smiles....

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

As for the portion highlighted in red... I think that more publicity/exposure will sway people to steer clear of PWCC. Based on recent prices realized, the corruption message has reached only a tiny percentage of their client base (so far). Awareness needs to be expanded, if anything is ever going to change. Otherwise, Brent's tenets will continue to infiltrate the hobby.

As for the portion highlighted in bold... I believe you nailed it. Very insightful perspective. It is the starry-eyed collectors that are largely perpetuating this nonsense. And Orlando's Letter clearly shows his level of respect (or lack there of) for his loyal cult of followers.

maniac_73 · #3 07-27-2019, 01:34 PM

Rovell definitely did his research for this piece. I actually directed him to this board and Blowout forums a few months ago when the controversy began. Whoever said he has less of a base than Keith Obermann should really check his social media numbers he has 2 millon twitter follwoers

Republicaninmass · #4 07-27-2019, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Rovell definitely did his research for this piece. I actually directed him to this board and Blowout forums a few months ago when the controversy began. Whoever said he has less of a base than Keith Obermann should really check his social media numbers he has 2 millon twitter follwoers

Its Great that you have personal interest in Rovells article, and with 2 million followers, I get it. I understand the power of an Influncer. The old dancer at a nightclub in my town has 19 million on YouTube. Color me impressed.

However, both cut by ESPN, Olbermann was pulling in 10 million a year in his hey day, Rovell left for "incentives" to the action network. Olbermann, although politically he might be a little charged, one cant argue his love and passion for the hobby.

Again, after I googled Rovell, i wasn't quite sure why there was so much attention given to him. I see he is just another mouthpiece for the cause, and that is great. But to say the 2 million Twitter followers is a "bigger fan base" than Olbermann when Ken command 10 million a year salary, I seriously suggest otherwise

Just.Rachel · #5 07-27-2019, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

As for the portion highlighted in red... I think that more publicity/exposure will sway people to steer clear of PWCC. Based on recent prices realized, the corruption message has reached only a tiny percentage of their client base (so far). Awareness needs to be expanded, if anything is ever going to change. Otherwise, Brent's tenets will continue to infiltrate the hobby.

As for the portion highlighted in bold... I believe you nailed it. Very insightful perspective. It is the starry-eyed collectors that are largely perpetuating this nonsense. And Orlando's Letter clearly shows his level of respect (or lack there of) for his loyal cult of followers.

Here's what bothers me:

I'm guessing most PSA subs are done by people intending to sell the cards. We know people who want to sell cards will continue to submit them as long as there's more money doing that than selling them another way, raw or in another TPG slab. So, in order for PSA to lose business and feel the crunch, PSA slabbed cards will need to be fetching crappy prices for those trying to sell them.

Ugh. What about all the honest people out there? Does every PSA card have to lose value in order for reform to happen? That sucks.

I'm sure I'm way behind most people here in thinking this through. I'm kinda slow, admittedly. But every time I see this story in print, it feels like a gut punch.

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Rookiemonster · #6 07-27-2019, 03:04 PM

So what happens if PSA goes under? Do we all get refunds ? Does it basically void any authentication?

70ToppsFanatic · #7 07-27-2019, 03:33 PM

Many are working themselves up into a �sky-is-falling� mentality over this that is way beyond anything that has been established as fact so far.

It appears that some altered cards have found their way into slabs. That is based on some reasonably done investigative work, but it is not quite without some gaps and some assumptions that still need to be confirmed. Having the business records of The TPGs, PWCC, eBay and the major auction houses would go a long way to helping to complete the work done so far. However, unless legal authorities get involved I tend to doubt that the stakeholders mentioned would be willing to voluntary turn over that information.

Whether ornnit legal authorities are getting involved remains to be seen. There are media accounts that the FBI is looking into things. If true, that is hopeful news. In the meantime we�ve had conpletely unsubstantiated speculations about thousands and thousands of bad cards, CEOs dumping stock, TPG complicity and various other hyperbole that comes from various constituencies who have different interests in how this whole thing pans out and are trying to create spin and groundswell favoring the outcomes they most desire.

What is clear is that there are accusations and concerns about integrity issues in the hobby. Some stakeholders have gotten out in front of it with their communications about it. Others have not done quite as good a job, further fueling speculation and shaking confidence.

What is needed more than anything is patience and time to sort out what has and what has not actually happened. But there have to also be limits to that patience. This cannot be allowed to drag on endlessly, only to end up swept under a rug until the next episode that results in a flare up arrives.

It is the responsibility of the major stakeholders to get to the bottom of things in a timely manner and then transparently let the hobby know what they have found and what they plan to do to address it and prevent similar episodes again in the future.

A few months time seems woefully insufficient for getting that done, but I would expect that it shouldn�t take more than the time that has elapsed already for some concrete information to be provided.

As for those who continue to create suspicion and doubt through unsubstantiated claims and speculation, that only defects from getting to the bottom of exactly what is and fuels an unhelpful, and potentially damaging, mob mentality.

Stick to the facts. Respectfully reach out to the major stakeholders and ask them what they are doing about the current situation and when they are willing to commit to providing a transparent update on where they are in investigating and addressing it. Avoid going down the path of conspiracy theories and character assasination based on comments that are not backed up by hard evidence. That is truly what is in the best interests of the hobby and the many small stakeholders who are legitimately concerned about the present situation.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #8 07-27-2019, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

Many are working themselves up into a �sky-is-falling� mentality over this that is way beyond anything that has been established as fact so far.

It appears that some altered cards have found their way into slabs. That is based on some reasonably done investigative work, but it is not quite without some gaps and some assumptions that still need to be confirmed. Having the business records of The TPGs, PWCC, eBay and the major auction houses would go a long way to helping to complete the work done so far. However, unless legal authorities get involved I tend to doubt that the stakeholders mentioned would be willing to voluntary turn over that information.

Whether ornnit legal authorities are getting involved remains to be seen. There are media accounts that the FBI is looking into things. If true, that is hopeful news. In the meantime we�ve had conpletely unsubstantiated speculations about thousands and thousands of bad cards, CEOs dumping stock, TPG complicity and various other hyperbole that comes from various constituencies who have different interests in how this whole thing pans out and are trying to create spin and groundswell favoring the outcomes they most desire.

What is clear is that there are accusations and concerns about integrity issues in the hobby. Some stakeholders have gotten out in front of it with their communications about it. Others have not done quite as good a job, further fueling speculation and shaking confidence.

What is needed more than anything is patience and time to sort out what has and what has not actually happened. But there have to also be limits to that patience. This cannot be allowed to drag on endlessly, only to end up swept under a rug until the next episode that results in a flare up arrives.

It is the responsibility of the major stakeholders to get to the bottom of things in a timely manner and then transparently let the hobby know what they have found and what they plan to do to address it and prevent similar episodes again in the future.

A few months time seems woefully insufficient for getting that done, but I would expect that it shouldn�t take more than the time that has elapsed already for some concrete information to be provided.

As for those who continue to create suspicion and doubt through unsubstantiated claims and speculation, that only defects from getting to the bottom of exactly what is and fuels an unhelpful, and potentially damaging, mob mentality.

Stick to the facts. Respectfully reach out to the major stakeholders and ask them what they are doing about the current situation and when they are willing to commit to providing a transparent update on where they are in investigating and addressing it. Avoid going down the path of conspiracy theories and character assasination based on comments that are not backed up by hard evidence. That is truly what is in the best interests of the hobby and the many small stakeholders who are legitimately concerned about the present situation.

There are more facts out there than you list above.

Peter_Spaeth · #9 07-27-2019, 03:50 PM

PWCC's own lawyer has confirmed on this Board there is an FBI investigation, with all due respect what are you talking about?

By the way, what "stakeholders" are out in front of it in your opinion?

"It appears that some altered cards have found their way into slabs." You have a gift for understatement and minimization. Perhaps the best line yet of this whole epic. I can't even think of a good analogy. Noah standing on the Ark and saying, it appears to be raining.

Brian Van Horn · #10 07-27-2019, 03:53 PM

Well written. To the point, depressing and accurate.

Act two starts later this week.

Just.Rachel · #11 07-27-2019, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

... Respectfully reach out to the major stakeholders and ask them what they are doing about the current situation and when they are willing to commit to providing a transparent update on where they are in investigating and addressing it....

Errr... That's funny. Most aren't currently taking questions. Tried PSA's forum, they just kept deleting questions no matter how respectfully they were asked.

All I've seen are the three Ds. Delete, deny, deflect. Maybe I missed something?

G'head though. Give 'er a shot. Let me know what they say. ; )

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Peter_Spaeth · #12 07-27-2019, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just.Rachel

Errr... That's funny. Most aren't currently taking questions. Tried PSA's forum, they just kept deleting questions no matter how respectfully they were asked.

All I've seen are the three Ds. Delete, deny, deflect. Maybe I missed something?

G'head though. Give 'er a shot. Let me know what they say. ; )

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

You missed spin and contain and minimize and reassure.

The best part of his post was Joe asking for civil discourse. The company's idea of civil discourse is POOF.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #13 07-27-2019, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

So what happens if PSA goes under? Do we all get refunds ? Does it basically void any authentication?

What has happened to the cards of any grading company that has gone under?

drcy · #14 07-27-2019, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

So what happens if PSA goes under? Do we all get refunds ? Does it basically void any authentication?

They always gave and give opinions, and the labels will still be documentation of their opinions.

No reason to take their opinions more or less seriously then or now.

Exhibitman · #15 07-27-2019, 04:10 PM

I'm with Ryan on this one: cleaning up the mess PWCC and PSA caused is not going to be pretty in the short term but overall, it has to be done if there is to be any reliance on TPGs in the future.

steve B · #16 07-28-2019, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

So what happens if PSA goes under? Do we all get refunds ? Does it basically void any authentication?

See.... Gai, Acu-card.... and a bunch of others that just couldn't get it right.

CobbSpikedMe · #17 07-27-2019, 03:24 PM

I don't have any problem with prices dropping from the inflated levels they have attained the last few years. I'd like to be able to afford more cards that I can't right now. So if that becomes a result of this whole scandal then I'll be okay with that.

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