Dealers need to learn more about foreign cards

Scocs · #1 08-02-2019, 10:30 AM

Sorry, but I agree with Jason. These are supposed to be markets, NOT museums. Sometimes I wonder if dealers are more interested in showing their cards than in selling their cards.

I understand the dealer has overhead and profit to consider, but currently there is a Toletero that has beenon eBay forever that�s priced at $2000 that I don�t think is worth more than $200. Where are negations supposed to go, assuming the card is open to negotiation? $300...hell, even $200 now is worth more than $2000 never.

From the dealer�s p.o.v., I would hate to have to haggle over every card I sell, so I understand that point. So as it really is a two-way street of educated buyers and sellers necessary for positive transactions.

That�s what I think pisses Jason off so much, for good reason.

Mark17 · #2 08-02-2019, 10:47 AM

Scott, I agree with you and Jason that a smart dealer who wants to make sales will price his stuff reasonably so it will sell. For the supply-demand concept to trigger, the buyer and seller need to be close enough that they can agree on a mutually acceptable price.

My disagreement is at the higher level - the attitude I see frequently in society, where people want to tell others how to live, or run their businesses. I've seen many dealers overprice things and the only persons who suffer are those dealers. A potential buyer does not suffer or incur any type of loss if they see something they would like to have, but it's priced ridiculously high.

So, dealers who adjust and price their stuff well will prosper, and those who don't will either learn, or not make very many sales. It's really simple, and it requires no "help" from third parties.

Scocs · #3 08-02-2019, 11:04 AM

Mark, I concur. For Jason, it�s the loss, though, of walking out empty handed without the card he wants. We�ve all been there and it sucks.

Mark17 · #4 08-02-2019, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scocs

Mark, I concur. For Jason, it�s the loss, though, of walking out empty handed without the card he wants. We�ve all been there and it sucks.

If I went through life thinking that way, I'd feel a sense of loss every time I saw a Corvette. :-)

It was a piece of cardboard. I'll bet he gets over it.

bnorth · #5 08-02-2019, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

If I went through life thinking that way, I'd feel a sense of loss every time I saw a Porsche Turbo. :-)

It was a piece of cardboard. I'll bet he gets over it.

I fixed that for you.

I agree, he will get over it.

Mark17 · #6 08-02-2019, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

I fixed that for you.

Oh, shoot! Ben when I first read this I thought, "He's sending me a Corvette!"

Aquarian Sports Cards · #7 08-02-2019, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scocs

That�s what I think pisses Jason off so much, for good reason.

Hey everyone's entitled to feel however they want, but this is NOT a "good reason." You just got a cancer diagnosis, your wife was in a car accident, your dog died, your boss just promoted an idiot who does half the work, half as well as you, those are good reasons to be be pissed off. Someone asking more than you want to pay for a piece of cardboard is a minor annoyance at most for a well-adjusted person. JMHO.

Jason19th · #8 08-02-2019, 01:38 PM

Wow this went places that I just wasn’t expecting.

First of all I just want to reiterate that I had a great time at the National and walked away with a great item and some great conversations. I don’t really collect cards, I collect players and I am sure I will have the opportunity to find something with the player in the future. It was a mild annoyance that did nothing to cloud a great day.

Second however I think that it does deal with a bigger issue of markets and what makes a healthy market. No single buyer has to listen to any single seller and no single seller has to listen to any single buyer. Both buyers and sellers do however need to listen to THE MARKET. If a card is on eBay, it’s correctly listed and of clear quality and it has not sold for months that means that it is priced over market. If a dealer ignores this and prices the item at ten times the amount they are not really in the market. They are not selling they are displaying. The same from buyers. If a card routinely sells for a 1000 I can’t say I collect that card but I think the price is wrong. It’s not my choice, if I don’t want to pay the market rate I cannot say I collect that card. I may want it, but I don’t collect it.

My point is it’s bad when either sellers or buyers ignore the market. It creates an unhealthy market that will just die

rajah424 · #9 08-02-2019, 01:40 PM

[/B]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Hey everyone's entitled to feel however they want, but this is NOT a "good reason." You just got a cancer diagnosis, your wife was in a car accident, your dog died, your boss just promoted an idiot who does half the work, half as well as you, people that act like they are authorities on every subject, those are good reasons to be be pissed off. Someone asking more than you want to pay for a piece of cardboard is a minor annoyance at most for a well-adjusted person. JMHO.

Fyp

Aquarian Sports Cards · #10 08-02-2019, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajah424

[/B]

Fyp

Don't know if that was directed at me, don't really care (see it didn't piss me off!) but as an authority, I would say that is also not a good reason to get pissed. You can simply disregard what I say.

People who get bent out of shape by stuff that doesn't materially affect them confuse me.

Scocs · #11 08-02-2019, 04:33 PM

Perhaps I�m conflating �being pissed off� with �being disappointed.�

And now back to our show!

TanksAndSpartans · #12 08-02-2019, 04:48 PM

The simple supply and demand model can be graphed with price on one axis and quantity on the other. There is no time indicator, so how long it will take to reach the point where a transaction is made is not shown. I often feel prices are set on eBay and elsewhere in kind of a �wait for the sucker� mode. It can be annoying to someone who knows the market well enough to make an educated guess as to where the item would end up if it went to auction, but those probably aren�t the buyers the seller is looking for.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #13 08-02-2019, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scocs

Perhaps I�m conflating �being pissed off� with �being disappointed.�

And now back to our show!

I'm completely on board with disappointment. Mahalo!

steve B · #14 08-02-2019, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Don't know if that was directed at me, don't really care (see it didn't piss me off!) but as an authority, I would say that is also not a good reason to get pissed. You can simply disregard what I say.

People who get bent out of shape by stuff that doesn't materially affect them confuse me.

I have this conversation with my wife fairly often.

I see some things as very big picture things. Like when software is inconsistent, or has UI that's inconsistent. It bugs me a lot, even though it may have little to no direct effect on me. But then there's the show we saw where an inconsistency in labeling between a simulator and an airliner caused a crash.... so consistency in some things IS important.

As far as cards goes, or any other collectible for that matter... Overpriced stuff has a few bad effects. Some mentioned by others.
It used to really bother me 20 years ago. Less so now. Oddly dealers underpricing things out of ignorance has never bothered me much at all...

Aquarian Sports Cards · #15 08-02-2019, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

As far as cards goes, or any other collectible for that matter... Overpriced stuff has a few bad effects. Some mentioned by others.
It used to really bother me 20 years ago. Less so now. Oddly dealers underpricing things out of ignorance has never bothered me much at all...

Oddly I have very few buyers complain about getting good deals at my auctions either. Still waiting for someone to say "Great auction but I didn't pay nearly enough for the card I got so here's an extra $50."

bnorth · #16 08-02-2019, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Oddly I have very few buyers complain about getting good deals at my auctions either. Still waiting for someone to say "Great auction but I didn't pay nearly enough for the card I got so here's an extra $50."

I have never done that with a business but I have done that with fellow collectors before.

x2drich2000 · #17 08-02-2019, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Oddly I have very few buyers complain about getting good deals at my auctions either. Still waiting for someone to say "Great auction but I didn't pay nearly enough for the card I got so here's an extra $50."

Scott, if it makes you feel any better, I've gotten such good deals at your auctions I just gave the card away

steve B · #18 08-03-2019, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Oddly I have very few buyers complain about getting good deals at my auctions either. Still waiting for someone to say "Great auction but I didn't pay nearly enough for the card I got so here's an extra $50."

I suspect you'll have a long wait for that.

I did once have a small part in a dealer doing it.
Guy came in with a bunch of late 40's early 50's cards. (In like 1979 or so, not all that unusual. ) Most were VG or worse.
The dealer, whose shop I hung out at made the guy an offer and he said he'd think about it. It was over the phone, while they had the cards.
Since I was there like 3-4 days a week I got to look through the bunch.
I get to the leafs, and there are a few I didn't recall seeing before so I asked for the guide book. (Either sports collectors bible, or the 78 Beckett. ) And after looking up I remarked that I'd never seen leaf rare numbers before.
"What"
"Yeah, there's a few of them in here, like maybe 10"
"Oh crap"

Brief discussion ensues, seller is contacted again and given a much better offer. which he instantly takes.
3 dealers saw the bunch, including the guys I hung out at who were pretty good. I was the only one who noticed.

The debate had been along the lines of "do we offer more to maybe compete with the other offers, or will it make the guy think we were lowballing him and wreck the whole deal since he may not trust the new offer if he thinks that.

The new offer was easily the highest. Done deal as soon as the guy got there and they went with him to the bank across the street for cash.
Happiness all around, except for me. I couldn't get a special discount on one of the rare numbers for having noticed them.. I still don't have one.

Leon · #19 08-06-2019, 05:36 PM

Yes, when I did auctions I never heard anyone complaining about getting a good deal and then send me more money. Not sure why?

As far as learning more about foreign cards....maybe it isn't a good ROI of the dealer's time? They would rather Do the ole "Mr. Mint flip".....or price too high and not sell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Oddly I have very few buyers complain about getting good deals at my auctions either. Still waiting for someone to say "Great auction but I didn't pay nearly enough for the card I got so here's an extra $50."

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