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#101
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Working Sets: Baseball- T206 SLers - Virginia League (-1) 1952 Topps - low numbers (-1) 1954 Bowman (-3) 1964 Topps Giants auto'd (-2) |
#102
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__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#103
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Ricky Y |
#104
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no mention of dick towel, this guy could take out any pen/ink mark, most wrinkles and creases that didnt break paper, and the gum/ wax stain on the back, he would do stacks and stacks of the bowmans, the 51's and 52's...i heard he done thousands....i remember someone saying his mantle count was up to 250+ fixed, and this was 2003.....
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#105
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Nice job by those guys! They have uncovered 1.8 million of the 1 Billion out there. Good luck finding the rest. |
#106
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Some of them trimmed so thin that it's inconceivable they passed authentication. PSA seems to be hypnotized by Moser's phony rough-cut borders, to the extent that they won't even measure the cards. In most cases, the original card (typically 2 grades lower) is the FAR better looking card. Their randomly/incorrectly assigned numerical grading has caused the current hobby to become so twisted and backwards, with lots more cardboard on the cutting-room floor. |
#107
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#108
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IMO the vast majority of card doctoring over the years has been on cards purchased raw, which never will be traced unless TPGs release their submission records which they never will do publicly. And even for cards purchased graded, the universe is just too big to be able to find most of them.
We literally have seen the tip of the iceberg, from an overall hobby perspective.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-11-2019 at 10:53 AM. |
#109
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Will be interesting to see what happens.... |
#110
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#111
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That happens in a couple years when the card doctors admit that “all” their submissions over the last 10-15 years contained alterations. Then the $@.8 million becomes $180 million.
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#112
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How late till the graded card market tanks? Next bad recession or will numbers be much lower this time next year in regards to this ? I’m betting on the latter.
Last edited by Johnny630; 08-11-2019 at 06:27 PM. |
#113
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I still wonder why so many think PSA was just doing a horrible job. |
#114
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Agree you’re 100% correct I think it’s more so people don’t care or are covering because they’re holding or pumping/selling PSA slabbed cards. To those guys All that’s cared about is money, sad but factual. |
#115
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Last edited by Fuddjcal; 08-12-2019 at 09:42 AM. |
#116
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Last edited by barrysloate; 08-12-2019 at 09:56 AM. |
#117
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If Madoff wasn't a PSA fan, you may be right.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed from 2012 to 2024. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
#118
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Q: Why is Bernie Madoff like a slabbed card?
A: Because they are both entombed. |
#119
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Yes, I believe that HE honestly believes it. He has stated in many posts that he will never purchase a card again, the whole hobby is tainted, nobody can be trusted, etc. It's obvious he his not a collector and just comes here for the drama at this point. If you aren't collecting there really seems to be no other reason to come to this forum multiple times a day. If there was something in life that got me so worked up, I guess I would find something better to do with my time.
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#120
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I know I am baffled beyond belief how so many are trying to minimize what is going on. I do get their reason though. I sincerely hope karma is a real thing. |
#121
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This has long time been a major cause of why this Sh#T continues...we have all known what has been going on for over 25 years yet it’s always played downed and Hushed Off. To many people are making money, AH’s Dealers, eBay Sellers, and collectors a like. They only care about money and greed. I still think something is being worked out to accept some form of altering as restorative legitimacy....such a farce and more Bull To The Sh+T Last edited by Johnny630; 08-12-2019 at 11:09 AM. |
#122
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Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
__________________
Thanks, Jason Collecting interests and want lists at https://jasoncards.wordpress.com/201...nd-want-lists/ |
#123
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That may all be well and good in regard to how THESE players choose to view things. However, it will have no bearing on how the market (i.e., future buyers) view it. In the end, a card is worth what an informed buyer is willing to pay. And if some day (hopefully sooner rather than later), a buyer will be able know what has been done to the card not via terminology (i.e., alteration versus restoration) but instead by the actual work done, the price that buyer will be willing to pay will indicate his/her "acceptance" of any such restorative legitimacy. Last edited by benjulmag; 08-12-2019 at 12:24 PM. |
#124
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But you neglected to mention the biggest money-maker of all... PSA. Just imagine what might happen to them if even 1/4 of the collecting public knew about this. Right now, I’d estimate that less than 5% are even aware. I asked around at the National, and roughly 1 out of 20 people were aware of the Card Scandal or Slabgate. It wasn’t a scientific survey by any means... but it does demonstrate how few people are clued-in to the problems. Of those few who are aware, the vast majority remain silent for the financial reasons stated above. And the sleuths uncovering the massive fraud are reprimanded/minimized (by Sloan, Orlando and all of the PSA apologists who claim that under 1% of numerically graded cards are altered). Just say nothing and it will go away! Even here, it seems like there are less than 30 people who regularly express outrage, or post on it honestly and objectively. So unless the word spreads a lot further (or the Law cracks down hard) it will just be status quo. They’ve gotta keep their gravy train from derailing at all costs. |
#125
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__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#126
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As long as these registry guys are buying and selling only amongst themselves, they will have the ability to have current market pricing accept the concept of restorative legitimacy. But to hold value new buyers will need to enter the hobby. And it is THOSE NEW BUYERS, people who have no loyalty to any grading method and no horse in the race as to whether currently graded cards hold value, who will determine future market prices.
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#127
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__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#128
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#129
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One site I was banned/kicked off of after I posted the Hitler parody. Imo, just because some don't frequently post about it doesn't mean they aren't aware of it. I had written PSA and PWCC off long before this scandal hit and my reasons weren't even about the doctoring but mainly due to the inconsistency I seen with PSA and the questionable practices I seen from PWCC. This scandal just cemented/confirmed my reasons/thoughts and I for one, no matter what, will ever get a card graded with PSA nor will I ever purchase or consign any cards through PWCC ever again.
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 Last edited by irv; 08-12-2019 at 02:41 PM. |
#130
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__________________
Successful B/S/T deals with asoriano, obcbobd, x2dRich2000, eyecollectvintage, RepublicaninMass, Kwikford, Oneofthree67, jfkheat, scottglevy, whitehse, GoldenAge50s, Peter Spaeth, Northviewcats, megalimey, BenitoMcNamara, Edwolf1963, mightyq, sidepocket, darwinbulldog, jasonc, jessejames, sb1, rjackson44, bobbyw8469, quinnsryche, Carter08, philliesfan and ALBB, Buythatcard and JimmyC so far. |
#131
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Not sure if this is even feasible financially anymore???? |
#132
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[QUOTE=irv;1907782]I had read prior to the National some were talking about handing out papers/information about the scandal to those waiting in line and to those already inside. Did anyone do that or see anyone else doing that while there?
I (for one) did not see even a hint of it. Was looking around for any sign of Flyers, Signs or the Moser/Orlando/Huigens Cards that were produced. But never saw a thing. Guess it just goes to show what a small minority we are within the hobby. Did anyone else here witness any calling out of PWCC, Beckett or PSA? Last edited by perezfan; 08-12-2019 at 04:45 PM. |
#133
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[QUOTE=perezfan;1907821]
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#134
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Folks can accuse me of thinking the sky is falling, but here's where I'm at.
1. I believe that PSA's numerical grades are BS and assigned preferentially to big customers. 2. Seeing a PSA numerical grade gives me zero confidence a card has not been altered. 3. Seeing a PSA/DNA authentication of an autograph gives me know confidence the autograph is authentic. I think it would take new management and a lot of transparency to ever get me back on board. Jason Schwartz Western Springs, IL Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
__________________
Thanks, Jason Collecting interests and want lists at https://jasoncards.wordpress.com/201...nd-want-lists/ |
#135
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you're probably right, I stand corrected. Not even in my wildest dreams do I think it's 50 Billion but, who really knows? This "musical chairs" has been going on ad nauseam for 20 years now. You would agree the magnitude is HUGE?
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#136
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I think that's what Peter Nash is doing on BO.
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#137
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#138
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Yes, I do believe the magnitude is huge. I don't think it's a matter of just a few bad cards.
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#139
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I agree Barry. Of course it's huge. It's been going on rampantly for 15+ years.
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain |
#140
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http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=270622 http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=253875 .
__________________
Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 08-15-2019 at 08:06 AM. |
#141
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#142
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I would think anyone who has the FBI knocking on their door would disagree with that statement and say there is risk. Now I know no one has been arrested yet, no civil lawsuits or death sentences, but I suspect having the FBI investigating your life cannot be pleasant.
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#143
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On pg 47 of the article, DD states that "the sale of restored cards, priced and sold as restored cards could create a whole new market. It would give the average collector a chance to own the high end cards in beautiful condition for a fraction of the normal cost, cards that they could never otherwise afford."
The problem with this is that any card that gets restored is not going to be sold as a restored card, nor will it be priced as a restored card. On the same page, DD also said that PSA was thinking of getting him to work as a consultant for them, but in the end it just didn't work out. Well, I think that would have been a great idea. PSA should have worked with all the best card doctors in the hobby. It would only make them better at detecting restorations. |
#144
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I would love to be wrong about this, of course. They all should be punished severely. But it's baseball cards.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-15-2019 at 10:44 AM. |
#145
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#146
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I firmly believe that, in the future and perhaps near future, all cards from now and retroactively will be able to be identified-- and the hobby and collectors will be able to deal with that.
The idea that altered cards will remain undetected (except for those who don't want them examined) is false. Though, duly note that there have been instances where cards have been restored, represented and graded as such. With the means to identify all altered cards, this may be a wave of the future. Last edited by drcy; 08-15-2019 at 11:01 AM. |
#147
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i beg to differ!
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#148
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I’m not as familiar with the FBI as an attorney like you may be, but they don’t strike me as an organization set up to play the role of mediator and work nicely to help get some restitution back for people. In fact Mastro and Allen went to jail and never even had to pay a penny back! I’m kind of thinking there has to be more to this but what do I know?
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#149
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I don't know about that. If I were a betting person I would say restitution might come into play in the final punishment (if there is any). But then again, what do I know? I am just a layperson running a chatboard.
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__________________
Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 08-15-2019 at 12:20 PM. |
#150
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But it will never happen if PSA is still ruling the roost in the TPG world. A new better company will need to emerge, to render PSA (and it's tens of thousands of mis-graded cards) obsolete. PSA would NEVER take the responsibility to do so themselves, as evidenced by recent statements from Sloan and Orlando. Obviously a big "ask", but hope it can happen. Last edited by perezfan; 08-15-2019 at 12:25 PM. |
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