Let's discuss conspiracies and a billion dollar fraud

Yoda · #1 08-25-2019, 01:24 PM

People are not revolting because they have too much skin in the game.

Johnny630 · #2 08-25-2019, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

People are not revolting because they have too much skin in the game.

Agree and also people are not revolting because everyone is making money hand over fist....check out the Facebook boards they don�t care everyone thinks it�s a investment.....they are still spending like crazy

oldjudge · #3 08-25-2019, 01:44 PM

Chuck- I don�t understand what you are suggesting. Personally, i�ve collected what I collect long before grading was around. I have few graded cards and, if PSA and SGC went away tomorrow, it would not have a significant impact on my collecting. Should I stop collecting because of the current card doctoring? The point I am making is that the hobby is an amalgam of different types of collectors. Some, like high grade registry guys, are directly impacted by the current scandal and might be advised to rethink their collecting strategy. Others, like myself and other old time collectors, don�t grade much and although we find card doctors equally repugnant, are not directly impacted by them to the same degree.

Fuddjcal · #4 08-25-2019, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Chuck- I don�t understand what you are suggesting. Personally, i�ve collected what I collect long before grading was around. I have few graded cards and, if PSA and SGC went away tomorrow, it would not have a significant impact on my collecting. Should I stop collecting because of the current card doctoring? The point I am making is that the hobby is an amalgam of different types of collectors. Some, like high grade registry guys, are directly impacted by the current scandal and might be advised to rethink their collecting strategy. Others, like myself and other old time collectors, don�t grade much and although we find card doctors equally repugnant, are not directly impacted by them to the same degree.

No disrespect for what & how you collect, but yes, how about putting on the brakes for a while until it all shakes out?

oldjudge · #5 08-25-2019, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

No disrespect for what & how you collect, but yes, how about putting on the brakes for a while until it all shakes out?

I personally don't see the reason to do that, but I respect your decision to do so.

maniac_73 · #6 08-25-2019, 02:56 PM

I collect because its something fun to do with my son and teaches him about baseball history. I learned in the 90's when the junk wax bubble went bust that this hobby is not an investment..at least for me..Im still waiting for my Kevin Maas rookie to pay for my retirement lol

egbeachley · #7 08-25-2019, 06:10 PM

In all seriousness, I think we have reached the tipping point.

If you want unaltered cards in your collection you are safer buying them raw rather than graded.

drcy · #8 08-25-2019, 06:49 PM

Clearly, collectors are going to have to rely on more that the professional graders to judge if a card is altered. And one learns how to identify alterations by owning and examing raw cards.

And there will be a point that a particular collector can do a better job than the professional grader at identifying if his cards are altered, if only because they spend more time examining the card. In fact, considering the time professional graders take to examine a card, there's no reason to believe that there will soon be many collectors better able to identify alterations than grader-- but this won't include collectors who only buy graded cards and keep them in the holders..

brianp-beme · #9 08-25-2019, 08:13 PM

For some reason for four decades I have not felt involved in the 'I view cards as an investment' got to get it graded and boost my registry faction. Therefore I decline to do anything but stand on the sidelines as the monster that was created from greed comes crashing down.

Brian

Johnny630 · #10 08-25-2019, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

For some reason for four decades I have not felt involved in the 'I view cards as an investment' got to get it graded and boost my registry faction. Therefore I decline to do anything but stand on the sidelines as the monster that was created from greed comes crashing down.

Brian

Well Said Brian

People still do not think it’s gonna crash....they think everything is fine....hobby is flouring will only go up......

A fool and his money are soon parted.

timzcardz · #11 08-26-2019, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1315750

Here's to your fun and games and love for the hobby. It's already over and ruined for me and countless others, but maybe a few more of you dupes will wake up and stop talking about the new pannini release, pops & registry's, hot pack,your old judges, e-98's, t206, bowman chrome et al WHO THE F CARES? STOP SUPPORTING THIS Fraudulent hobby until you can come to realize just how stupid you are for supporting a racketeering enterprise so out of control that every card is suspect, IMHO

Here is another of the uncountable criminals in the hobby and how they make a living doing it. Close associates of PWCC. shocker! IMHO, there are 100's of guys like this working with PWCC, PSA and former employees of PSA. it is rotten to the core. PERIOD.

I find it fascinating that people are not revolting. It's very amusing and laughable watching the human condition of minions and followers. How about you guys wake up and STAND for something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

No disrespect for what & how you collect, but yes, how about putting on the brakes for a while until it all shakes out?

Believe me, I get not supporting something that I am opposed to.

Putting on the brakes for a while? Is one to assume that there is currently nothing good or honest in the hobby? That there is no way to get a fair and honest deal done?

I'm trying to understand this.

Likewise, with the opioid situation that has been created/advanced by SOME doctors, and SOME of big pharma, and SOME pharmacies, should I also not go to my doctor or my local pharmacy for my blood pressure meds or when I'm sick, until the issue is resolved?

ullmandds · #12 08-25-2019, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Chuck- I don�t understand what you are suggesting. Personally, i�ve collected what I collect long before grading was around. I have few graded cards and, if PSA and SGC went away tomorrow, it would not have a significant impact on my collecting. Should I stop collecting because of the current card doctoring? The point I am making is that the hobby is an amalgam of different types of collectors. Some, like high grade registry guys, are directly impacted by the current scandal and might be advised to rethink their collecting strategy. Others, like myself and other old time collectors, don�t grade much and although we find card doctors equally repugnant, are not directly impacted by them to the same degree.

I fall into this category as well...been collecting cards 43+ years...only vintage almost 30...i've never been too condition sensitive. I really like the collection I have put together...and I'm not rushing to get out...BUT...I've certainly changed my purchasing habits as of lately...and while I also find the grim reality of this hobby to be repugnant and shocking...I'm happy still collecting albeit on a different level.

I agree that many with lots of $$$$ tied up in high grade "commodities" and/or big buck cards...just keep chugging along hoping that things will continue as they have so far. And many seem not to really care if their cards are altered as long as they are not fake.

So has there been such growth in the hobby the last 5 or so years to make green cobbies in vg worth 10-15K? Will this be a 50K card in our lifetimes?

Who knows?

I just hope people are punished and changes do occur to improve the hobby...and I think the hobby is moving towards values based on the eye appeal of a card and not the technical grade...with alterations not mattering to more and more "collectors/investors" as time goes by.

Fuddjcal · #13 08-25-2019, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

People are not revolting because they have too much skin in the game.

I mean, I have 100K in 'the game" and I still don't really care to support it. Seriously, why would anyone continue to feed a criminal enterprise?

I always try to stand up for right vs wrong (in my own mind at least

), I guess it's just in my nature?

RCMcKenzie · #14 08-25-2019, 01:59 PM

I like the part of the hobby where people talk about a walk-off homer in 1906 and post a $75 card of the guy. It's just a hobby for me. I like baseball. The grading and prices for 8's 9's and 10's is and has always been kind of silly to me. I don't really see anything new about any of it.

whitehse · #15 08-25-2019, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I mean, I have 100K in 'the game" and I still don't really care to support it. Seriously, why would anyone continue to feed a criminal enterprise?

Great question but not everyone is part of the criminal enterprise. I am old school as I have been collecting for the better part of 45 years and have continued my old school ways of collecting. I don't dabble in any of that high end stuff and collect what I like but most importantly, I use my experience and expertise to know if a card I just bought is how a card of that age should look, feel and smell. I have always used the rule that if a card looks too good to be true it likely is.

I go to local shows or buy from people who have shown themselves to be selling quality, unadulterated material but most of all, I do not need a third party to tell me how good a card is as I already know it because of experience. I think we can all stay in the hobby and stop feeding the criminal enterprise if one doesn't let their ego get in the way. Stop needing the highest quality card and paying stupid prices for the right to own a Wally Moon 1959 Topps PSA 9. Ungraded that cards goes for a few bucks so be happy with that. As others have said I blame the registry for fueling the stratospheric prices of even the most common, highly graded cards and the egos of the people who need to be at or near the top.

If we go back to old school happiness I feel one will be happy with what you collect. Is this a simplistic view on the current hobby? Sure it is but then again...is it really?

frankbmd · #16 08-25-2019, 02:20 PM

Thumbs upChuck.

I have only purchased a couple of cards this year, one from Barry.

Jeez, I hope he�s not part of a racketeering enterprise.

barrysloate · #17 08-25-2019, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Thumbs upChuck.

I have only purchased a couple of cards this year, one from Barry.

Jeez, I hope he’s not part of a racketeering enterprise.

Well I sold a total of about four cards this year, so it wouldn't be very much of a racket.

I probably fall somewhere between Chuck's dystopian view of a hobby gone to hell, and Jay's love of baseball history and the early artifacts of the game. Yes, this scandal really gave the hobby a wallop and I don't blame anybody who decides to throw in the towel. But I still think it's possible for each of us to find a way to enjoy collecting.

Unfortunately, the way the hobby evolved was it became way too much about making a lot of money. And the TPG's entered the game with the promise of cleaning things up, but I think all they've really done is pour more gasoline on the fire. They became extremely powerful and in order to make a lot of money, you had to go through them. Maybe it would have been better if the hobby focused more on our love for baseball cards, and not on the minutiae of how square a corner should be. I know so many people feel the hobby is still better with the advent of third party grading, but I am going to respectfully disagree. I think they have done more harm than good.

But if one can focus on the great history of the game, and find something to collect that isn't so dependent on somebody else's opinion, I think there is still a way to enjoy this hobby.

perezfan · #18 08-25-2019, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Well I sold a total of about four cards this year, so it wouldn't be very much of a racket.

I probably fall somewhere between Chuck's dystopian view of a hobby gone to hell, and Jay's love of baseball history and the early artifacts of the game. Yes, this scandal really gave the hobby a wallop and I don't blame anybody who decides to throw in the towel. But I still think it's possible for each of us to find a way to enjoy collecting

Unfortunately, the way the hobby evolved was it became way too much about making a lot of money. And the TPG's entered the game with the promise of cleaning things up, but I think all they've really done is pour more gasoline on the fire. They became extremely powerful and in order to make a lot of money, you had to go through them. Maybe it would have been better if the hobby focused more on our love for baseball cards, and not on the minutiae of how square a corner should be. I know so many people feel the hobby is still better with the advent of third party grading, but I am going to respectfully disagree. I think they have done more harm than good.

But if one can focus on the great history of the game, and find something to collect that isn't so dependent on somebody else's opinion, I think there is still a way to enjoy his hobby.

I thought this was very well said, and it perfectly represents my feelings as well...

I feel TPGs have done great harm for the reasons Barry stated. My concern is that as the hobby evolves, the emphasis will become more and more about making money. And that will only motivate the card doctors / shady dealers to an even greater extent. That's why I'm hoping that Law Enforceent cracks down hard, and forces big changes upon PSA and the TPGs.

Something positive has to result from all of this!

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