Collectors Universe releases fourth quarter and fiscal year end earnings today

WhenItWasAHobby · #1 08-29-2019, 02:58 PM

My limited observations from the Blowout Forum is that tally of discovered doctored cards is ever increasing at a still alarming rate and the cumulative damages are far from trivial. It would be very informative if they had a spreadsheet compiling of all of their findings and see what we're talking about in terms of the sum total of final prices of doctored cards discovered. I'm guessing we're talking about multiple millions dollars which is well above their warranty limits which is not only for cards but also for coins.

Also, a CEO of a publicly traded company has a fiduciary duty towards it's shareholders which includes loyalty, good faith and fair dealing and exercising candor on material company matters. Orlando's responses and actions during that analyst meeting may warrant some serious scrutiny regarding his duties.

I also find it rather amusing that card submissions have been on the increase the last several years. Maybe everyone and their brother wants to make big money doctoring cards while the market is still hot.

T_Hamilton · #2 08-29-2019, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

My limited observations from the Blowout Forum is that tally of discovered doctored cards is ever increasing at a still alarming rate and the cumulative damages are far from trivial. It would be very informative if they had a spreadsheet compiling of all of their findings and see what we're talking about in terms of the sum total of final prices of doctored cards discovered. I'm guessing we're talking about multiple millions dollars which is well above their warranty limits which is not only for cards but also for coins.

Also, a CEO of a publicly traded company has a fiduciary duty towards it's shareholders which includes loyalty, good faith and fair dealing and exercising candor on material company matters. Orlando's responses and actions during that analyst meeting may warrant some serious scrutiny regarding his duties.

I also find it rather amusing that card submissions have been on the increase the last several years. Maybe everyone and their brother wants to make big money doctoring cards while the market is still hot.

Logical next step is to get in the Boards ear...
http://investors.collectors.com/board-directors

WhenItWasAHobby · #3 08-29-2019, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

Logical next step is to get in the Boards ear...
http://investors.collectors.com/board-directors

Good point. I would probably be taken more seriously if I had stock in the company.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 08-29-2019, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Good point. I would probably be taken more seriously if I had stock in the company.

If you had stock in the company you would be thrilled with Joe.

barrysloate · #5 08-29-2019, 03:34 PM

As Corey has said many times, it is not PSA who determines the value of cards, it's the potential buyer. If a new grading service is able to determine that cards previously holdered were altered, the next buyer will decide what he is willing to pay. Maybe PSA will do nothing and never admit they made any mistakes, but that doesn't prevent a future buyer from rejecting any or every card he deems problematic.

It will entirely be market based. The TPG opinion will be meaningless.

Of course, what will happen if somebody develops a new technology that can detect tampering is that people with a vested interest in PSA cards will forcefully demean and reject the findings of the new company. They will state that the new technology is flawed and can't be trusted. They'll find a couple of mistakes the new company made and say that their grades are no more reliable than the old ones, and that they shouldn't be trusted.

WhenItWasAHobby · #6 08-29-2019, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Of course, what will happen if somebody develops a new technology that can detect tampering is that people with a vested interest in PSA cards will forcefully demean and reject the findings of the new company. They will state that the new technology is flawed and can't be trusted. They'll find a couple of mistakes the new company made and say that their grades are no more reliable than the old ones, and that they shouldn't be trusted.

Or more accurately, "they [TOO] shouldn't be trusted".

barrysloate · #7 08-29-2019, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Or more accurately, "they [TOO] shouldn't be trusted".

I'm not holding my breath on the inclusion of "too."

benjulmag · #8 08-29-2019, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Of course, what will happen if somebody develops a new technology that can detect tampering is that people with a vested interest in PSA cards will forcefully demean and reject the findings of the new company. They will state that the new technology is flawed and can't be trusted. They'll find a couple of mistakes the new company made and say that their grades are no more reliable than the old ones, and that they shouldn't be trusted.

Perhaps, but just as PSA doesn't set the value of cards, so too will the sellers' rejections of the new technology not have any impact on the market value of their registry cards. Again, what matters will be what the buyers think of the new technology, and presumably they will look to evaluations done by respected impartial third parties, not biased sellers.

barrysloate · #9 08-29-2019, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Perhaps, but just as PSA doesn't set the value of cards, so too will the sellers' rejections of the new technology not have any impact on the market value of their registry cards. Again, what matters will be what the buyers think of the new technology, and presumably they will look to evaluations done by respected impartial third parties, not biased sellers.

That is true. But the old guard will refuse restitution because they will say they do not accept the new findings.

swarmee · #10 08-29-2019, 05:18 PM

Quote:

I'm guessing we're talking about multiple millions dollars which is well above their warranty limits which is not only for cards but also for coins.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5032
That's up to Page 200 or so of just that Mantle thread, not including Robert Block or the most recent HawkDynasty exposure thread.

Peter_Spaeth · #11 08-29-2019, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5032
That's up to Page 200 or so of just that Mantle thread, not including Robert Block or the most recent HawkDynasty exposure thread.

No matter, we don't see it as material.

WhenItWasAHobby · #12 08-29-2019, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5032
That's up to Page 200 or so of just that Mantle thread, not including Robert Block or the most recent HawkDynasty exposure thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No matter, we don't see it as material.

Coupled with the "fraction of people who choose to do nothing more than complain about how third-party systems are imperfect".

WhenItWasAHobby · #13 08-29-2019, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5032
That's up to Page 200 or so of just that Mantle thread, not including Robert Block or the most recent HawkDynasty exposure thread.

Thanks.

swarmee · #14 08-29-2019, 05:36 PM

Presuming PSA can get all the scammers to buy back their own cards, he's right. That's a big 'IF' though.

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