PWCC Black Swamp crossover

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Nice, that’s the pic I was looking for. BUT, I don’t understand why someone would take it out of a BSF flip to put in another flip without the BSF designation and a new cert number. I am not a submitter, so I don’t know how it works, but a new cert# means someone cracked it out, submitted it raw, and paid substantial fees to have it graded anew, no?

It’s one thing to get rid of the BSF designation, which I don’t think makes much sense. But an entirely different thing to crack, submit, and pay for this card on a whole new review.

Someone could have simply sent it in for a reholder and requested a new cert # and to remove the BSF designation. I don't follow these closely but the few I've seen don't seem to command any special premium. Maybe the consignor thought it would do better without it.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Someone could have simply sent it in for a reholder and requested a new cert # and to remove the BSF designation. I don't follow these closely but the few I've seen don't seem to command any special premium. Maybe the consignor thought it would do better without it.

That could be. And Pete has suggested that perhaps the card is more valuable dissociated from the BSF -- After all, according to the PSA registry, there are 14 E98 Cobbs from the Black Swamp Find graded a PSA 9, and only 8 non-BSF E98 Red Cobb PSA 9's. But personally, I would much rather have the provenance on the flip. Interesting side note: There are 22, E98 Red Cobb (BSF and non-BSF) that are graded PSA 9, and only 10 Red Cobbs graded anything other than PSA 9 (and two are 10's); however, there are 37 designated as just "Ty Cobb" with no color association and red seems to be most the popular E98 Cobb variation. It seems like lower-grade E98 Red Cobbs should sell for a premium since they are the scarce ones!! All that said, it seems all high grade E98 red Cobbs are from BSF - whether the flip states such or not - so the PSA registry is misleading here to those who don’t know much about this issue - like me!! So I will defer to others with better knowledge.

Ok, I am done on this topic. Nice card and someone will be happy to own it

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

That could be. And Pete has suggested that perhaps the card is more valuable dissociated from the BSF -- After all, according to the PSA registry, there are 14 E98 Cobbs from the Black Swamp Find graded a PSA 9, and only 8 non-BSF E98 Red Cobb PSA 9's. But personally, I would much rather have the provenance on the flip. Interesting side note: There are 22, E98 Red Cobb (BSF and non-BSF) that are graded PSA 9, and only 10 Red Cobbs graded anything other than PSA 9 (and two are 10's); however, there are 37 designated as just "Ty Cobb" with no color association and red seems to be most the popular E98 Cobb variation. It seems like lower-grade E98 Red Cobbs should sell for a premium since they are the scarce ones!! All that said, it seems all high grade E98 red Cobbs are from BSF - whether the flip states such or not - so the PSA registry is misleading here to those who don’t know much about this issue - like me!! So I will defer to others with better knowledge.

Ok, I am done on this topic. Nice card and someone will be happy to own it

Ryan- are you saying that before the Black Swamp Find, there were already eight E98 Cobbs graded PSA 9? That doesn't sound right. Mint condition candy cards are very scarce.

[Rhotchkiss]

Barry, I dont know much about E98's (was never into them and never owned a single one). All I am going off of is the PSA Registry -- picture attached below - which shows 8 E98 Red Cobbs, not designated BSF, graded PSA 9.

The statement has been made (twice) that one reason to cross a PSA 9 in a BSF flip to a PSA 9 in a non-BSF flip, with a new cert, is maybe because the owner felt the card would be more valuable disassociated from the BSF. My real point is that there are at least 7 other, PSA 9, Red, E98 Cobbs, in non-BSF flips. Thus, I dont see that as viable/realistic. Especially when, apparently, everyone that knows about these cards knows that almost all high grade E98 Cobbs are BSF. But I don't know.

I was joking that a lower grade E98 Red Cobb should be more valuable/have a premium, because, based on the pop report, they appear much more scarce than PSA 9s.

[pokerplyr80]

I'd say it's also likely that the cards without the designation were from the same find and simply submitted later. I doubt I would have introduced every card to the marketplace at the same time had I found these cards in an attic or basement. And the original submitter would have had good reason to not want the high grade population to jump too much at one time.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Barry, I dont know much about E98's (was never into them and never owned a single one). All I am going off of is the PSA Registry -- picture attached below - which shows 8 E98 Red Cobbs, not designated BSF, graded PSA 9.

The statement has been made (twice) that one reason to cross a PSA 9 in a BSF flip to a PSA 9 in a non-BSF flip, with a new cert, is maybe because the owner felt the card would be more valuable disassociated from the BSF. My real point is that there are at least 7 other, PSA 9, Red, E98 Cobbs, in non-BSF flips. Thus, I dont see that as viable/realistic. Especially when, apparently, everyone that knows about these cards knows that almost all high grade E98 Cobbs are BSF. But I don't know.

I was joking that a lower grade E98 Red Cobb should be more valuable/have a premium, because, based on the pop report, they appear much more scarce than PSA 9s.

I really don't follow this stuff either Ryan, but it sounds like some collectors want the BSF designation removed. Perhaps that's a stigma against the card? I just don't know.

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks all. I learned a lot from this thread, sincerely. Sounds like the current PSA was one of those held back by the family of the BSF and graded and sold later. If I ever pick up a PSA E98 Cobb (and I will likely go SGC, and E94, or maybe E93, first), I would like it in a BSF flip for the provenance, but that’s just me.

Happy Labor Day.

[LincolnVT]

Yup, all of the high grade E98 cards are from the BSF. Pretty cool in my opinion. Not many HOF pre-war cards out there that are pack fresh and have such a great story behind them. I'd love another one.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Two problems.

1. White dots on the new one near his right arm and hip that aren't on the other make me think these aren't a match.

2. Everybody knows that the only E98's over, I think, PSA 5 are Black Swamp, so removing the BS provenance is pointless. Pretty sure the highest grade on any E98 before the find was "5"

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Two problems.

1. White dots on the new one near his right arm and hip that aren't on the other make me think these aren't a match.

+1. Other slight differences as well, at least in the scans.

EDITED TO ADD: Note the differences in registration where the red background meets the uniform under Ty's right armpit down to his waist.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Two problems.

1. White dots on the new one near his right arm and hip that aren't on the other make me think these aren't a match.

these aren't the same card. see the various "white" areas along his jersey and the red. they aren't consistent between the two, in fact one of them doesn't really have them at all. add that to the white dots noted above, and these aren't the same card.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Two problems.

1. White dots on the new one near his right arm and hip that aren't on the other make me think these aren't a match.

Is it my imagination or do both of these have the exact same slight skew (diamond cut)?

Also the white dot on the bottom right edge of the shirt (hemline) appears to be identical?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Is it my imagination or do both of these have the exact same slight skew (diamond cut)?

Also the white dot on the bottom right edge of the shirt (hemline) appears to be identical?

The sheets would have been cut in stacks, so any card from the same position on the sheet and in that same stack would have the same diamond cut.

A light spot on a uniform is part of the design I would expect it to be the same.

The registration is different.