Argument for why Tobacco insert cards cannot realistically be Grades of 8 or 9

[barrysloate]

It is no doubt a hoax Corey, but it is the engine that propels this hobby forward. If we all agree that the registry is what brings the big money into the hobby, then the hobby needs as many high grade cards as possible. So wouldn't it make perfect sense to turn a blind eye to the chicanery of the card doctors, since they are providing a service that is desperately needed? They are supplying the hobby with high grade cards, thus making access to the registry that much easier. The more high grade cards out there, the more well pocketed collectors can play.

Third party grading was never about accuracy and precision. It was always about keeping customers happy and coming back. When I was active in the business, I remember having a number of conversations with customers that went something like this: I sent five cards to the TPG, and four of them came back with evidence of trim. As such, I will never do business with that company again. Those conversations stuck with me. That's when I realized that collectors don't want a blunt assessment, they want good news. Good news is what keeps them in the hobby and makes them repeat customers. Bad news sends them someplace else.

Third party graders never entered the hobby to clean it up and expose all the fraud. They came in to make a lot of money. And the way to do that is to make people happy. Why do you think when a collector resubmits a card for a regrade, the condition can only go up but can never go down? Because that's the only way to keep cards coming back for a second or third or fourth grading fee. If the card's grade could go down, the resubmission business would dry up. It's not about an accurate assessment, it's about keeping customers happy.

That's the business model. And the hoax you cite is really what helps the TPG's remain so very profitable. They may not be that skilled in grading and authenticating, but they are incredibly skilled at making money for themselves, their clients, and their stockholders.

[benjulmag]

I think that is a short term view Barry. As you yourself said, eventually technology overtakes everything, and so it will with card grading and exposing what has been going on. And when that happens, the hobby is going to suffer one huge black eye.

I believe this hobby is strong enough to be propelled with an engine not fueled by fraud.

[barrysloate]

I very much hope you are correct.

[shagrotn77]

Tobacco cards aside, I never really saw cards from as recently as the 1960s that would grade PSA 9s and above when I was regularly attending card shows in the 1980s...and I went to a lot of them. Where were all these cards hiding?

[GasHouseGang]

Every once in awhile, you will run across a collector that seems to have looked at the cards once, then put them away. I can imagine some tobacco collector taking the cards out of the package, looking at them, and then placing them in an empty tobacco box or tin and never looking at them again. I'm sure it's rare, but it could happen. Something like the "Black Swamp Find" is incredibly rare, but proves that sometimes cards can survive in amazing condition.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

.

I'll end by turning your question around: How are you going to prevent your raw collection from eventually becoming grist for the doctor's mill if not by getting it graded?

George

My answer to your question is very simple. But, first I must inform you that we are talking about a collection that comprises of every major BB set from 1888 to 1987 (all complete).
And in some cases multiple sets of my favorites....such as 1941 PLAY BALL, 1949 LEAF, 1949 BOWMAN, and 4 different T206 complete (or near complete sets). Plus, several FB sets.

Can you imagine if all these cards (26,000+) were graded, I would need another house to store them in. Actually, I have a large barn, but critters (big and tiny) visit it often.

Anyway, my Grandson is an avid BB fan, and he appreciates the history of the game. He will be inheriting my entire collection.....so, there's my simple answer to you.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by tedzan

George

My answer to your question is very simple. But, first I must inform you that we are talking about a collection that comprises of every major BB set from 1888 to 1987 (all complete).
And in some cases multiple sets of my favorites....such as 1941 PLAY BALL, 1949 LEAF, 1949 BOWMAN, and 4 different T206 complete (or near complete sets). Plus, several FB sets.

Can you imagine if all these cards (26,000+) were graded, I would need another house to store them in. Actually, I have a large barn, but critters (big and tiny) visit it often.

Anyway, my Grandson is an avid BB fan, and he appreciates the history of the game. He will be inheriting my entire collection.....so, there's my simple answer to you.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

wow!

[GeoPoto]

Originally Posted by tedzan

George


Anyway, my Grandson is an avid BB fan, and he appreciates the history of the game. He will be inheriting my entire collection.....so, there's my simple answer to you.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Ted, that is a wonderful answer. I envy your Grandson. I apologize for seeming to pry into your personal plans. My point is an extension of my prediction that the TPG's will soon make it impossible to crack out a graded mid-grade card, doctor it, and get it regraded without being discovered. If I'm right, it will force the doctors to focus on raw cards and create a situation where getting raw cards graded is the only way to prevent them from being doctored before they are graded. I trust your Grandson to sort it out.